A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13

[Cohen]

Simply I find totally unlogical to have lifedraining weapons stronger than unique weapons (const-8) because they replenish your life and stamina.

They do the job for:

Spells that heals and reinvigorates AND items that regenerates and reinvigorates.

Probably if I get an Ember, or a Summit, my character will find too soon fatigued out by drain life if going toe-to-toe against on wratih sword equipped character, or fatigued too against an army, unless he's ... lemme see ... undead or something similar Encumbrance 0?

[CUnknown]

Duncanish-

I was just pointing out flaws in Norfleet's reasoning. To attack the position that 'x should be nerfed', you should either argue that it's not a must-have (as you did), or try to argue that must-haves aren't bad for strategy games (which would be very difficult).

I don't have enough experience with this game to know if lifedrain is a must-have or not, but I've read Norfleet Posts saying it is, and I believed him.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by CUnknown:
I was just pointing out flaws in Norfleet's reasoning. To attack the position that 'x should be nerfed', you should either argue that it's not a must-have (as you did), or try to argue that must-haves aren't bad for strategy games (which would be very difficult).

There are some things which are simply fundamental the very nature of combat, such as the concept of damage. Lifedrain falls into this: Without it, your choices of option are very much limited to fatigue-free, high-regeneration chassis options, and really, there aren't any available until very late in the game. Furthermore, my point was arguing that while lifedrain is fundamental to the very nature of combat in Dom2, lifedraining *WEAPONS* are not a necessity.

Originally posted by Cohen:
Simply I find totally unlogical to have lifedraining weapons stronger than unique weapons (const-8) because they replenish your life and stamina.

Life draining weapons tend to be either poor in damage, or two-handed, or both, compared to these unique items. They are not even strictly necessary to have only on WEAPONS, as lifedrain can be acquired elsewhere.

Probably if I get an Ember, or a Summit, my character will find too soon fatigued out by drain life if going toe-to-toe against on wratih sword equipped character, or fatigued too against an army, unless he's ... lemme see ... undead or something similar Encumbrance 0?

Unless, of course, he manages to kill or incapacitate his opponent using his more powerful unique weapon before this happens. You obviously haven't tried some of the nicer artifact weapons.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Unless, of course, he manages to kill or incapacitate his opponent using his more powerful unique weapon before this happens. You obviously haven't tried some of the nicer artifact weapons.

I must say, watching Ember make 3 troops go poof in a single attack is rather nifty, and Magebane certainly makes quick work of putting things to sleep, but in general, that's not enough for an SC to take out an entire army by itself. Well - when it's undead, 0 encumbrance, and has over 100 HPs, high armor, and is regenerating maybe.

Some of the other artifact weapons seem ... underwhelming though, compared to a Wraith blade or Blood Thorn (paired with a high strength).

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
I must say, watching Ember make 3 troops go poof in a single attack is rather nifty, and Magebane certainly makes quick work of putting things to sleep, but in general, that's not enough for an SC to take out an entire army by itself.

On the flipside, some of these weapons are quite damaging and host nasty special effects on those hit, which makes them very useful when you're taking on only a single target, such as an opposing-force SC, where fatigue is not a serious problem.

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Cainehill:

quote:

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Originally posted by Norfleet:
Unless, of course, he manages to kill or incapacitate his opponent using his more powerful unique weapon before this happens. You obviously haven't tried some of the nicer artifact weapons.

I must say, watching Ember make 3 troops go poof in a single attack is rather nifty, and Magebane certainly makes quick work of putting things to sleep, but in general, that's not enough for an SC to take out an entire army by itself. Well - when it's undead, 0 encumbrance, and has over 100 HPs, high armor, and is regenerating maybe.

Some of the other artifact weapons seem ... underwhelming though, compared to a Wraith blade or Blood Thorn (paired with a high strength).

---

Much as I hate to agree, but it is true. I don't really want to cry "nerf lifedraiing weapons!", but I wouldn't mind something to be done with them. I mean - let's face it!

We all know that 90-95% of weapons used in competitive MP games are wraithswords/blootthorns/HellSwrod. It is fact of life, nobody can argue with that.

Sure, few unique artifacts, (which are con 8! vs Con4) are certanly better than Wraitsword.

You may also use one or two 1h weapon, if you want a sheid such as charcoal on SC, like lucky sword or quickswrord for special SC design. Andof course you don't use such weapon vs undead or lifeless forces. But that's it. Everything else is highly situational, while Wraitsword and L are bread and butter of any decent SC in veteran SC.

What about other 100 cool weapons? I used them all in SP. But in MP between professionals, it usually just not worth it. Everybody and they grandmother are runing around with wraitswords and bloodthrons.


Please understand me correctly. I don't think it has the highest priority. If it comes to nerf, I would much rather see clams nerfed, or make temples destractable by the order of enemy commander instead of auto-destruct as it isnow, in order to reduce madcastling. These are my main two hopes for the upcoming patch. To make lifedrainig weapons less prominent would be nice. Or buff up other weapons, however nerfing 3 weapons are much easer than buffing 100 others. But I'll not be too heartbroken if it'll not happen, although I wil be glad if it will.

Bottom line is - it's not that I hate lifedraining weapons, they are cool. But I would like to see all other nice weapons used as well much more often than they are being used now. (and please, don't pile me up with exapmples of single weapon uses, or some special anti-Sc situation when you want to use that dagger or this Flamerge. I know all this. But Wraithswords and its keens are still bread and butter by wide margin, and we all know it.)

[tinkthank]

I know too little about competetive MP between "professionals", as SB put it, and thus I am very very wary with the yell for the nerf stick.

However, CU seems to have a good point: Dom2 is most excellent for more than two reasons, but primarily in my eyes for these two reasons, both of which are inexorably intertwined with one another:
1. It is buckets of fun
2. There is no one single "must have" strat

(I think 1 is partly true because of 2)

Therefore, CU makes a good point: If something appears "must have", then it is dangerous to the very nature of Dom2. Norfleet (a professional along with SB and you others) claims it is a must have. (I dont use SCs, but I'm a dork, and surely I will lose in a competetive environment.)
(Btw: this logic cannot be used against so-called "clam hoarding" or pleas to change the Moloch: The Moloch, for instance, can still be used wonderfully without having his imps nerfed (but not only as an SC).

I still think that balance changes in a wish list need to be clarified and specified completely, otherwise you get a bigger problem (Ancient American Wisdom: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it").