Stop the (routing) Madness!

[Cainehill]

Truper said:
Just who assigned you to pass judgement on those who post to this board, Arryn? You've been flinging about words like whining, clueless, and crying wolf with great abandon, and your own contribution from your perch on your self-delusional Olympus has amounted to suggesting spells which "[you] haven't actually used [your]self".

Here you thought it necessary to contribute nothing at all, save giving yourself yet another chance to malign people by implication. "It's gotten very old and tiresome. Give it a rest. Please." - recognize those?

And just how much did you contribute here, Truper? A much greater negative quotient than Arryn did, it seems to me, which is pretty hypocritical for someone who continually bemoans how the quality of threads has gone downhill.

[Soapyfrog]

Unit/commander morale should probably ignore stuff like PD and battle-summons. I agree its ridiculous that a hero should route because a skeleton he summoned got killed.

As for commanders sticking around after their armies have routed away, well I have seen it a few times but its been suggested to me they were berserk... and to be honest I had never really checked that. So I will keep my eye open for strange behaviours like that.

[NTJedi]

I've also seen this way too often where I found a good workaround.
I grab slow and thick units then place one for each back corner with settings of hold and attack. Units like living statues work great.

[Cainehill]

NTJedi said:
I've also seen this way too often where I found a good workaround.
I grab slow and thick units then place one for each back corner with settings of hold and attack. Units like living statues work great.

Especially with crippled units, that's a decent workaround for ensuring that commanders don't route too quickly, albeit flyers, wrathful skies, etc, all too often wipe the rear echelon stragglers out.

But it doesn't help with the larger (imo) problem, which is commanders staying around after they should have routed. And, Soapyfrog - I've checked very closely to make sure there wasn't berserk or anything. Non-berserk Tuatha with no nature blessing, Arcos PD commanders, etc - definately no berserking involved there.

[Kristoffer O]

I have come across strange incidents where commanders sometimes stay and fight. I have noticed this only when all soldiers are killed in the first round of battle or something soimilar. It was long since Last time and I'm not sure what happened. IIRC it was a PD battle.

Commanders rout when all troops are lost. If you summon one skeleton (twin spear is working now) and the skeleton is killed you have lost all your soldiers and you will therefore retreat.

[En Forcer]

Here's a dumb question:

Do all the rallying and morale boosters also work on commanders? The Standard, Horn of Valor, Special abilities and all that...

This whole problem also sounds a lot similar to the Moloch/imp issue.

[Cainehill]

Kristoffer O said:
I have come across strange incidents where commanders sometimes stay and fight. I have noticed this only when all soldiers are killed in the first round of battle or something soimilar. It was long since Last time and I'm not sure what happened. IIRC it was a PD battle.

Commanders rout when all troops are lost. If you summon one skeleton (twin spear is working now) and the skeleton is killed you have lost all your soldiers and you will therefore retreat.

The twin spear one I could understand, at least according to game mechanics.

But the commanders are staying around when the troops were killed long after the first round of combat : the 4th round or later, and not just with PD. Air Queens, Tuatha, PD commanders, etc, none of which were berserk. Would turn files showing this be helpful in debugging and tracking it down, or do you need files from the host server as well?

[Stormbinder]

Cainehill said:

The twin spear one I could understand, at least according to game mechanics.

But the commanders are staying around when the troops were killed long after the first round of combat : the 4th round or later, and not just with PD. Air Queens, Tuatha, PD commanders, etc, none of which were berserk. Would turn files showing this be helpful in debugging and tracking it down, or do you need files from the host server as well?

Cainehill is correct about commanders. (gulp! ) Just few turns ago in my Throne of Heavens game I've seen all none PD troops (and all but one commanders) killed by turn 20 or so one by one, but nevertheless my Last commander stayed and fight to the end. On the other hand I've also seen what KristofferO have described - commanders stay and fight after all PD including commanders were killed in 2nd round of combat (Ghost Riders)

Question to KristofferO: Are there any special rules regarding routing during Castle Defense?

[Soapyfrog]

Kristoffer O said:
Commanders rout when all troops are lost. If you summon one skeleton (twin spear is working now) and the skeleton is killed you have lost all your soldiers and you will therefore retreat.

But surely this isn't desirable? Shouldn't an exception be made for battle summons?

[Cainehill]

Soapyfrog said:

But surely this isn't desirable? Shouldn't an exception be made for battle summons?

Especially given that otherwise, a group of commanders with no troops can attack, and on turn 5 (or sooner, with haste/quicken) a phantasmal warrior or skeleton is summoned, gets killed, and routs.

Except of course, that the commanders currently might not rout until they're all dead, which is arguably worse.