Paratroops Question

[PlasmaKrab]

SCAJolly said:Oh bloody Mary, it would be great if you had to toss crews and vehicles separatly! It could to an extent further make up for the delay that would exist in real life, by that you have to get the crews to their vehicles! Then you could perhaps lower the amount of destroyed vehicles.

What about ammo and fuel?

But, yeah, that could add up to the general annoyance called 'realism'
Especially if the crews jump a half km away from their vehicles, land suppress, pinned, out of contact, and have to walk all the way...
Under arty fire...

Mmh, maybe that would ask for some vehicles to be able to be landed 'ready to move'. Can't really air-droppable vehicles be dropped like that? BMDs for example?

Besides, 'surviving' transport planes could be fine, but I guess there'll have to be something from the level bombers so they can't get used again and again like helos.
Erm, I don't know how far you got into this idea yet Andy, but have how you considered getting round the idea of landing /take off run?
I don't know many airplanes that land in 50 meters...

[kevin]

The 82nd Airborne drops HMMWV's, (and Sheridans once upon a time) all the time. This is how they do it:

Vehicle Crews drop with the Infantry.
LGOPs (Little Groups Of Paratroopers) form up and take initial objectives.
After the DZ (Drop Zone) is secured, patrols are sent out while additional C-130s are called.
These C-130s contain vehicles secured to pallets
These C-130s drop to low altitude in the DZ, like a few feet off the ground.
A drag chute is deployed, which pulls the palatilized vehicle out of the Hercy Bird.
HMMWVs are secured to the pallet by 4 tie-chains which can be removed in minutes.
The HMMWV is ready for action (although with only 1/4 tank of fuel)
Fuel and other cargo is deployed in special cargo pallets by the same method.

I feel like this can be and should be simulated by SPMBT.

Kevin

[SCAJolly]

That's a very nice overview.
How about Soviet tactics, late Cold War? I know Norwegian military handbooks describe vehicles being dropped for use in airborne raids. As a matter of fact, I have only read about the use of airdropped vehicles in B.E.L. raids when the infantry is lifted by chopper (thus without parachuting themselves), but for all I know it could apploy to anything.

[AB]

From my stint in the 82nd, I remember that the 'Heavy Drops' (as the tow & scout jeeps, artillery, etc., were called) went out before the troops, since you didn't want those things dropping down on top of your LGOPs. I went on Opereration Bright Star (in Egypt) in 1985 with the advance party, and somehow ended up on the DZ prior to the Heavy Drop (don't ask). It was quite exciting - running around trying to dodge all of these immense bundles hurteling towards the ground. I can assure you you don't want those coming down after the troops.

Unpacking a jeep was very time consumming - lots rope & webbing to cut, and the crushed packing material that has to be pryed out from every nook and cranny underneight the vehicle. If things went very smoothly, it would take 15 minuets. On average, i'd say it took 30 minutes.

Dropping the vehicles for 10' is called LAPES - Low Altitude Parachute Extraction System. i only saw it once, at a VIP (CAPEX) show, because it ruined too many vehicle to do that often. The vehicles had several feet of energy absorbing material (like a heavy corrugated cardboard) beneight them to absorb the shock of landing. It was not easy to free the vehcile from all of this crushed material, certianly harder than undooing four quick release. Dropping a vehicle without this material would likely destroy it, almost as if it were dropped from 10' while traveling forward at 100mph. It is one of those things that looks good in shows, but not in real life.

If you think the US army would would never fake something in a show, think again. I once did a VIP (capex) where one company did the parachute jump, and were instructed to just lay down upon landing. A second company then sprang up a minute or two later, with all their gear unpacked. This took place behind some small rises, so the audiance was suitable impressed with the speed that airborne soldiers could prepare themselves after a jump.

Oh, and we young paratroopers refered to the 'big' women at the bars as 'heavy drops'.

[SCAJolly]

TEN FEET? Ohwow, I can imagine that, but then again I can't... How was the "bed" shaped, in order not to roll over and crush the vehicle?

[Shadowcougar]

its fun to watch a LAPES and see the pallet have a chute not open. its amazing how far the pallet will go. just need to make sure that the plattet isn't coming your way.

BTW... about 10 years ago the local news team from here was at a demo when there was a major accident. the C130 dropped the LAMPS and then bounced on the ground at the Sicly drop zone. the C130 crew and some others didn't make it. just to highlight how dangerous it is. the crew had be doing that drop for weeks before the drop to show off to the locals.

[Listy]

Tip for senario desginers: Can't you dismout the Crew for a vehicle and then drop them both seperatly? or would the vehicle start the game as destroyed?

[PlasmaKrab]

Good idea to simulate separate dropping. Bound to be doable.

But as Andy said,

I was going to remove the ability of vehicles to be thrown off planes while dangling on big hankies (It was not a design decision to alow vehicles to drop, it was a side effect the playtesters found, and I was going to remove as an unintended bug, but they persuaded me to leave it in with the above caveat - that the higher casualties were vehicles which were destroyed or renderd unserviceable by the drop .

So you will have the worst of both worlds if you try that with the present parameters:

Crews landing apart AND half of the crews and vehicles surviving...
Since only the origianl crew can mount a precise vehicle, probability laws will get you with not a single running vehicle...

[KevinRanger95]

As a paratrooper for most of my career, heavy drops was not the best thing on this planet, great concept, but not worth it. It caused alot of vehicles to be redlined(not working) as soon as they hit the ground. But one thing that was working was LAPEING, deployment of vehicles were quicker, it took out missing drop zones, and it was delivered in less than 30 sec in a ball a dust or snow.
unpacking was alittle different, like a fellow trooper from the 82nd said it took awhile to unpack during his time, I was in the 82nd and the 3rd ranger bat. during the 90's and it is still slow, and if you think unpacking a jeep took awhile try unpacking a hummer.