Accuracy values for the main guns - MBT's.

kevineduguay1 · #1 August 28th, 2005, 02:23 AM

M256,

The info on Russian auto loader equiped tanks ROF is optomistic at best. In the early 1990's it took the auto loader 10 seconds to re-load and put the gun back on target. In a real battle any Western tank could out shoot it by at least 3 to 2 rounds. And who reloaded the ammo carrosel when it was empty in a Soviet built tank? The commander. If the gunner and commander are doing it, that just leaves the driver to pray that they get it done soon so he does'nt have to die for his country.
Now if he is doing that, who spotted for new targets? In the game durring the first few turns a Soviet/Russian tank gets to fire 2 rounds per impulse. One a gun round and one a ATGM. This is bull. All are in the auto loader. If not the ROF drops. They all go through the same tube.
They are still working on the accuracy of their sabot rounds, and their auto loader is still a mess.
My question is, why do Soviet/Russian tanks in many cases have ROF of 7, while they have the ATGM advantage (weapons slots 1 and 2 ) and an unbeliveable ROF of 7 for all T-80s, some T-70s, and maybe some I have not found. ALL WESTERN TANKS with a 90mm or better armament have a ROF of only 6. Despite the FACT that a 120mm loader in an ABRAMS could out load the AUTO-LOADER 3 to 2 in ANY situation reguardless of training.
One other thing, how do you un-load the tube of a 125mm gun with the auto-loader if you have the wrong ammo in the tube? You clear the weapon just like a naval weapon, fire the round off, make another selection for type of ammo, and wait 10 seconds to die.

RecruitMonty · #2 September 5th, 2005, 09:09 AM

I find the best wayto deal with bunkers is with an airstrike/bombardment followed by an assault with engineers or flamethrowers (preferably from the flanks or rear of the emplacement) with armoured support to supress any infantry tanks near the bunker.

RecruitMonty · #3 September 5th, 2005, 09:11 AM

If you have no air support, popping smoke infront ofthe bunker (the tanks should have smoke) normally puts the enemy out of action for a while until you can zap them.

RecruitMonty · #4 September 5th, 2005, 09:23 AM

I agree with you guys when you say the Russians are definately over gunned, I looked at the figures in Mobhack for Germany and the USA and you are all absolutely right, The Ruskies really do have a very high ROF, a bit too high.

DRG · #5 September 5th, 2005, 01:01 PM

Quote:

RecruitMonty said:
I agree with you guys when you say the Russians are definately over gunned, I looked at the figures in Mobhack for Germany and the USA and you are all absolutely right, The Ruskies really do have a very high ROF, a bit too high.

ROF of main guns is determined by crew experience in this game and crew experience only. The ROF number in MOBHack has NO effect on the number of shots you get with the main gun in this game. It's all about the crew and how good they are. That's the way it is, that's the way it's going to stay.

There are also a lot of people commenting on how fast a Russian tank can fire who really have no idea how fast a Russian tank can fire. Here's a quote from a Finn who was trained on it...

" I was a mech in the Finnish army half a decade ago. My training was especially for the weapons systems: gun, sights, hydraulics, electronics, autoloader. I've used the loader a number of times, and when I clocked it, loading usually took 7-9 seconds, 10 if the cassette required was furthest away "

7 - 9 seconds is hardly slow is it and I don't hold this quote as the holy grail but it is representative of other's I have read and it's also fair and honest

There are WAY too many people trying to judge how the game works by focusing in on one number in the OOB's. There are 12 numbers that make up a weapon then there are another half dozen in the unit section that determines how well it works. THEN you toss in how good the crew is at their jobs. Looking at ROF then judging that this makes the Russians "Over gunned" isn't even remotely accurate. If this were the case anyone playing as the Russian or with Russian equipment would run roughshod over any "western" opponent and that MOST DEFINITELY does not happen.

Put tanks on a map and play the game to judge how it works

Don

kevineduguay1 · #6 September 9th, 2005, 12:29 AM

DGR,

When you approch the 9-10 second time range then you are talking about a 2 to 1 shot difference in favor of a western tank.

DRG · #7 September 9th, 2005, 11:00 AM

Quote:

kevineduguay1 said:
DGR,

When you approch the 9-10 second time range then you are talking about a 2 to 1 shot difference in favor of a western tank.

Kevin....I'm not changing the OOB's to give western tanks more of an advantage than they already enjoy when all the other factors are put together. Generally they already enjoy a ROF advantage in many cases because the crew experience it higher. If you consider this some kind of affront to "reality".... that's fine, go ahead and believe that but the OOB's are not changing. The existing ROF of 3 and 4 shots on average isn't even CLOSE to what "theoretically" could be fired by either Russian OR Western tanks given the time and distance they can move on the map in one turn but those are the numbers we use because , when combined with all the other factors in the game it gives a reasonable representation of "reality" even if some things just don't add up. I can live with that. What you want changed is NOT going to change because I know that changing it will screw up the game play and in the end, it is a game. The topic has been flogged to death. You have not and will not convince me that this is something that needs to be done. Give it a rest.

Don

Marcello · #8 September 9th, 2005, 03:36 PM

"One other thing, how do you un-load the tube of a 125mm gun with the auto-loader if you have the wrong ammo in the tube?"

Exactly in the same way an Abrams would do.You fire it.
Even if theoretically possible, you do not unload a "wrong" round in the middle of a battle in any other way.Too dangerous and time consuming.Even with an human loader the procedure is fire and reload, if I have undestood correctly.

"The info on Russian auto loader equiped tanks ROF is optomistic at best."

Do not underestimate Vasily, that would be a big mistake...
Ten seconds is basically the worst case scenario for the slowest autoloader type, mounted on the T-72.The one mounted on the T-90 can cycle faster, the T-80 is faster still and the latest bustle autoloader is even faster.
So it depends on what specific tank you are speaking about,the loading plan and the mode of operation.You can go from 10 seconds down to probably 3-4 depending on all the above variables. The issue is a bit more complicated than "ruskies SUCK!!!!!!".You should read more about it, it is rather interesting...