Are we paying more for less?

[Nerfix]

What Leif said.

[JaydedOne]

Mltdwn said:
I see your point Jayd.. My whole problem is while I like the idea of Dom3... It doesn't really strike me as worth the money when another company is providing essentially the EXACT same game in most respects, with higher production values, more gameplay options, and have made a fortune off of 4x games and proven it is anything but a "niche" market with reasonable prices... Basically what I am saying is with the competition releasing the same game in a month with all of those added abilities and production values for a lower price point what makes Dom3 worth it as it adds nothing different really (other than sprite based ground combat you can't control) to the gameplay.

I guess I don't follow. You say it's the "same game" but earlier you mention that it comes sans the magic/random maps system. Putting aside how fun it is to be able to play with the random maps (I made a random map today and started playing with the map editor to make it a fun custom game scenario), the magic system IS Dominions. It's kind of like saying Dominions is a fantasy-themed Civilization without the technology tree. I like Civ a lot and love learning technologies, so I wouldn't buy Dominions if that was the primary draw of the game for me.

On the other hand, I love magic and fantasy-based games. I also love the hands-off strategic element of battle in Dominions that rewards planning as opposed to twitch. I also love supporting small devs who patch often and do their best to encourage modding in their creative and motivated community. I'm sure you can find things to sell me on where M2:TW is involved. But I don't so much see how we're not talking apples and oranges here.

[Mltdwn]

OK answer me this, what features and abilities does Dom3 add that M2TW doesn't? I'm trying to compare the two and decide which I should invest my money into because other than the "magic" aspect I really can't see what Dom3 brings to the table that is different or better... From what I understand the diplomatic functioning is much more limited due to being primarily a go to war with everyone game, the politics aspect is largely non-existant due to the nature of the game (as opposed to having to deal with the Church, the various other nobles, Crusades, Jihads, Briberies, assassinations, etc.), and the combat is largely more of simply choose the right groups and outnumber the enemies hoping for good enough "rolls" rather than being able to use actual tactics like flanking, luring, ambushes, etc.

Basically what makes Dom3 "better" in terms of features and gameplay?

[Archonsod]

From the sounds of it MTWII has more fantasy elements than Dominions already

I have to ask when the last time YOU bought a video card considering they are up ~$200 for a midline one

Last month. Your missing the point though - if I want to see how much I can push it, I'll load up Oblivion, Farcry or similar, not Dominions. To be honest, if all I wanted was a good looking picture on the screen you can download any number of graphical benchmarking demo's which are ten times prettier than anything the games market is likely to produce for a while. Thing is, I buy games to play, if all I wanted was to watch the eye candy I'd just put a DVD on.

edit:

basically what makes Dom3 "better" in terms of features and gameplay?

Kinda depends on you.Personally I don't like the total war series all that much.
Although you did offer your own argument - if you bought Dom 3 now, by the time you can afford Medieval 2 it'll likely have dropped in price...

[Leif_-]

Mltdwn said:
OK answer me this, what features and abilities does Dom3 add that M2TW doesn't?

Where to start. Actually, I won't even try. I suggest you wait for a few days until they demo version is ready and try it out for yourself. It's quite possible the game won't be to your liking, but I can promise you that it will be an entirely different game than M2TW.

[GamerMan12]

I know he is being really obvious about promoting another game and they are usually subtle, but even so I still think Mltdwn is likely to be a Guerilla Marketer.

GM12

[Taqwus]

Shogun:TW would have been more interesting if

- it didn't require very particular and sometimes quite dated drivers when played with an nVidia card
- it didn't completely break when I upgraded to Win2K from 98
- it allowed the disabling of the extremely absurd geisha super-assassins
- the AI didn't blatantly cheat with respect to knowing what your moves where going to be when it "simultaneously" planned its orders, getting information that was -impossible- for the human to get through any amount of spying
- one could both build and recruit in the same province at the same time
- cavalry archers could actually... shoot when moving
- they ever fixed the widely-reported and serious bugs with completely inexplicable routs
- it mattered what direction one attacked a river province from -- even if you attacked a province from ALL SIDES AT ONCE you still all started on the wrong side of the river at defended bridges

But I'll agree that the video sequences were decently well-done, and that the smoke from a simulated mini-Gettysburg with 1600 muskets was impressive, if completely FPS-demolishing at the time.

[Xether]

$55 is like what? £30? Thats average game cost for customers here in the UK. No way is it a rip off. Most these new "games" that devolpers are pumping out are not even worth £5 in my opinion. Abit chuffed theres people whining about the costs of one of the most indepth games ever.

[RonD]

Mltdwn said:
It doesn't really strike me as worth the money when another company is providing essentially the EXACT same game

But that statement couldn't be any less true. Because...

Mltdwn said:
Medieval 2: Total War which is largely the same thing, sans magic

Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to belittle you for not understanding how important magic is to Dominions, because you have to really get into the game to see how important it is.

Magic, the way it is implemented in Dominions, makes all the difference in the world. I do know some people who were looking more for M:TW when they tried Dominions2. They wanted to build big armies of infantry, archers, knights and such. They got quite turned off when their opponent showed up with some powerful summoned creatures backed by mages casting potent battlefield spells, and wiped their "normal" army right off the map. That's OK - M:TW is the game for them, and that's fine.

But for me, the real game, the enormous strategic depth of Dominions comes from the magic. What spells should I research, so as to maximize the impact of my mages? What magic items do I put on that specific commander to either take best advantage of his strengths or cover up for some weakness that my opponent is exploiting? What kinds of creatures should I summon, and what kind would be a waste of resources (because my opponent can easily counter them)? The list of strategic questions goes on and on. Indeed, there is at least one important strategic decision to make very nearly each and every turn (and by late game there are many, many such decisions to make each turn).

It isn't for everyone, but it sure is grand for those that get into it.

[Mltdwn]

GamerMan12 said:
I know he is being really obvious about promoting another game and they are usually subtle, but even so I still think Mltdwn is likely to be a Guerilla Marketer.

GM12

Yup, that's me, a guerilla marketer... Forgive me for wanting to make an "informed" decision based on people with knowledge of the game before spending my hard earned money. I played Dom2, and while I enjoyed it tremendously at first when I came across the TW line it basically turned me off of Dom as it was the same thing done better for the most part with a greater amount of depth in all aspects. Now Dom3 is out, is the price of a triple A X360 title, and doesn't seem to add anything really over Dom2 or the competition; however, that is going solely off of the limited features posted on the site. So I figured, since the game was out already I would ask those who have played it their input as to how it differs from other games in the same vein from an "objective" point of view. While yes I will admit and apoligize for perhaps going about it the wrong way, the question still stands... What does it bring to the table that isn't already out there for less which is of higher quality in production values, features, and gameplay value.

BTW Ron thank you for posting that viewpoint... And that answers alot of questions for me... While I can see the enjoyability in that then I have to say with that being the primary selling point it perhaps isn't the game for me as I like (personally) to simply have more strategic options. And that is just me, you answered alot with that simple statement and thank you.