The Middle Way - Faerun EA [Need Replacement]

[Hellboy]

Right now, I'm hearing more votes for graphs off, than graphs on, so I'm going with graphs off (at least for the moment). As posters have noted, there is a dependency w/ victory conditions, so I could imagine changing this if we end up going w/ VPs.

Teraswaerto said:
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I prefer games without victory conditions since they end naturally, and you can't use the mechanics to win before you've actually beat all your enemies. A player may lose practically all their provinces to raids and still come back, just as someone may attack 50 provinces in one turn with Cloud Trapeze or some such and not be in a position to win if there are no victory conditions.

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I agree with this, and overall this is my intent regarding how this game should be won. I would suggest then that the primary way of ascertaining victory is simply by consensus of the players still alive.

However, as you have stated this map is in fact huge, and I think this means that the end game could become rather tedious and painful for those that stick it out. In general I suspect that barring raiding tricks, the outcome of most Dom3 games becomes inevitable once one player controls 40%+ of the resources (maybe gem income [including item hoards] is more important than # of provinces? The value (imo), then of either using VPs or province totals is that they can serve to estimate who will become the inevitable winner, and save time in playing out a tedious endgame.

In any case, I think that if we set a victory condition of 70% control of provinces, this would at least give an "out" to a dominant player, playing against someone too stubborn to concede. Now, I would say the value of 70% is in fact tremendously conservative, most especially on this huge map. I would hope that if I am the victorious player, I can win with never having to manage a 200+ province empire.

Also, while I do believe that we want to avoid the raid type of victory that happened in this game, I just don't see myself losing sleep over a raid involving cloud trapeze into 50 provinces.

So, at this point I see myself leaning towards a game that I would hope will end by consensus, but that still has some kind of province count condition in it (maybe 50%?). But, in my admittedly limited experience on seeing these games go through to completion, I'm flexible on setting the number.

To put it more pedantically, 70% is very, very safe that no one will "steal" a victory, but at the same time holds little value in enforcing victory against a stubborn player(s). While perhaps 40% still holds some risk of the stolen victory, it has more value of forcing the question.

[Meglobob]

Set victory to 1 province over half of all provinces on the map. So if there is 422 provinces, set victory at 212 provinces. Anyone who owns half the world, in my book as won. No one can get to this sort of total, without everyone knowing whats going on, graphs on or off.

[Hellboy]

Meglobob said:
Set victory to 1 province over half of all provinces on the map. So if there is 422 provinces, set victory at 212 provinces. Anyone who owns half the world, in my book as won. No one can get to this sort of total, without everyone knowing whats going on, graphs on or off.

Personally, I'm fine with this.

[Tyrant]

I've actually played an all-player DomII game on this map, and i gotta say, the very concept of someone taking even 40% of the provences boggles the mind. That game ended in exhaustion at turn 120ish, long after an anonymous smart alec had Wished for the apocolypse SEVEN times. IIRC, there were 10 players left even still, castles in most provences, and 4 or 5 players with vast empires and defences so mighty that any thought of destoying them was madness. No one really did or could claim total victory, i think all of us that were big and mighty were satisfied that we had succeeded, and , by my way of thinking at least, anyone still alive at all got glory points.

I'm fine with any VP method that does not let someone win a cheap and easy victory, and perfectly happy to just count points when we are done.(or not if the graphs are off). To me, it is one of the virtues of Edi's masterpiece is that it is effectivly unconquerable and one is left to pursue one's fate in a local theater of the wider world.

[Hellboy]

Tyrant said:
I've actually played an all-player DomII game on this map, and i gotta say, the very concept of someone taking even 40% of the provences boggles the mind. That game ended in exhaustion at turn 120ish, long after an anonymous smart alec had Wished for the apocolypse SEVEN times. IIRC, there were 10 players left even still, castles in most provences, and 4 or 5 players with vast empires and defences so mighty that any thought of destoying them was madness. No one really did or could claim total victory, i think all of us that were big and mighty were satisfied that we had succeeded, and , by my way of thinking at least, anyone still alive at all got glory points.

I'm fine with any VP method that does not let someone win a cheap and easy victory, and perfectly happy to just count points when we are done.(or not if the graphs are off). To me, it is one of the virtues of Edi's masterpiece is that it is effectivly unconquerable and one is left to pursue one's fate in a local theater of the wider world.

This sounds like good & relevant experience. I would say that this sort of outcome would be good (maybe even desireable). Based on this I think that for a victory condition, going as low as 40% of the provinces is reasonable, and that even then we may well not see any clear victor (at least not by province count alone).

[RamsHead]

I know I am not participating in this game, but I thought I might be able to help out. With regards to the Western Islands, you can place a Navigators Guild in one of the provinces. I think the magic site allows you to recruit sailing commanders.

[Foodstamp]

*****Possible spoiler warning******





















I am not 100% certain, but I believe in dominions 2 this map had a navigator's guild in the Waterdeep province. If all the special provinces are still intact from the transition to dominions 3, you may not even need to add a navigator's guild.

[Amhazair]

Foodstamp said:
*****Possible spoiler warning******





















I am not 100% certain, but I believe in dominions 2 this map had a navigator's guild in the Waterdeep province. If all the special provinces are still intact from the transition to dominions 3, you may not even need to add a navigator's guild.

Still spoilering...





Actually, it's in Luskan.

[RamsHead]

More spoilers...


Actually, I just checked my dom 2 version and there are several nav guilds. One in Calimport, one in Baulder's Gate, one in Waterdeep, and one in Luskan. I don't remember where these provinces are off the top of my head, but they may already be placed in good position.

[Evilhomer]

Regarding starting positions:

Is there anything wrong with placing 16 (2 water) fixed starting position (evenly spaced and all atleast decent)?

Yes we would know from start where the other starts are but not what nation, and more importantly, this will give all atleast a fair startingposition.