New player struggling

[Kynalvarus]

quote:

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Originally posted by Andy Watkins:
Dont defend planets. Defend Space. If the enemy reaches your planets it means your fleet has been shredded and you are already history.

I tried that first couple of games I tried but had problem then that enemy ships could move quite fast and would "Shoot past me" and clobber my planets. At minimum you seem to have at least an outer layer of systems that need protecting, this may well be half a dozen or so systems with several worlds in them....

I've found that you have to at least try to hold the warp points, or else you give up several key defensive advantages. These are information, surprise, position, force concentration, initiative, and resource cost.
Presuming you have not been spysatted or probed, that first fleet into your territory has no real idea what might be on the other side of that warp point. Surprise follows from this. When the enemy warps in, they don't know what is waiting for them. If they prepare for every contingency, they need far more ships and tech, and thus time and resources to build up. Also their 'teeth to tail' ratio gets bad and so their maintenance cost per Ship of the Line gets high. Defensive units are maint-free, and bases 50%. If they rush in and hope for the best, then a well-set warp point defense will destroy far more than it cost to build.
Positionally, the enemy must come through a warp point, and so unless they're opening their own you know they have to face at least one of your border warp points. Properly equipped, they can run right by your border planets looking for softer targets. They can also pull nasty tricks like sacrificial plague/smartbomb/radiation hits which screw up the planet and only cost one ship per. If an enemy gets through my warp point in force I usually cut losses, write off the system, and fall back to the next warp point.
In the quadrants I've played there are more planets than warp points in normal planetary systems. At least one of the 3-4 has to point back to more of your space. Usually you'll have two or three to cover, and if you can plan it right, you'll only have one. In any event this lets you concentrate your forces far more effectively than trying to defend each planet. Trying to defend planets, at least in TDM, is IMHO a dicey proposition at best. Small domed colonies just can't hold the weight of gear to deal with even small fleets.
In warp point battles the defender usually gets the advantage, and you start at short range. I love medium/large sats at this point. The +4 range lets them cover the point and often outrange the enemy ships. They can't be targetted by seekers (but can by PD) so they're going to get in at least one shot. I particularly like making 'flytraps' of mines and engine-destroying sats - even when they lose the enemy has to take months to put those engines back together.
Finally, resource cost - units don't cost maintenance, and typically have better damage/cost and HP/cost ratios than ships.


Plus supply, I normally base my ships on planets because of supply. I used to base them at worm holes but then have to remember to keep getting them resupplied.

Andy

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Put up a cheap spaceyard base, once you have cruisers to make spaceyard ships. Stick it in any fleet you want refueled and presto, next turn full tanks. If it's a key warp point, make it a battlestation or starbase, add repair bays to supplement the spaceyard, and give it a few minelayers/satlayers/dronelauncher/fighterbays/cargo so that it can build up the defense, and restock after successful defenses. Also give it self-destruct & security stations unless you want your enemy to someday have a forward base with which to kill you. ;-)

Oh, and if you leave out the sensors you just wasted all of your time.

Kynalvarus

[Andy Watkins]

Defend worm holes not planets.

Comments from all that seem helpful, if I have understood them.....

I can put a fleet on a wormhole indeffinitely, it will not use up supplies until it moves/fights.

I could move a space yard ship to a worm hole, then build a space station with a ship yard in it. Then I could use the space station to build mines, or satellites etc to defend the wormhole.

If I am right this is a lot less trouble than keep building satellites and carrying them around the galaxy.

I just make one cruiser with a space yard, and that goes in turn to every worm hole of importance and builds a space station that then builds it's own defences.

Sound neat??

I like to do my own research, don't really like the idea of disabling ships, capturing them etc. As commented upon it would cost a lot for research etc to do that and it's not my style. Likewise I'm not going to use fighters anymore, too fiddly building carriers and fighters and keeping them alltogether.

I haven't ever bothered with fleet and ship training facilities, but I get the impression from others these are a must have feature??


I am trying to use someone elses pictures, (B5 ships) not too bothered about fancy mods etc. Not quite sure how to do it. I have copied B5 pictures into a new race file on the main game in the pictures directory "Earth alliance" it didn't have the 6 or so .txt files so I copied the ones out of "Terran" and renamed them.

Is that enough?

What I want to be able to do is start a new game, add a "New" empire, set all the characteristics up how I like but just use the pictures of Narn, Minbari etc for their ships, otherwise standard game.

Should I do something different??

Thanks

Andy

[Suicide Junkie]

quote:

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I haven't ever bothered with fleet and ship training facilities, but I get the impression from others these are a must have feature??

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Given a free +20 attack and defense modifier, yes.
Purchasing that large a modifier in your race characteristics would cost 2000 RP.

quote:

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I am trying to use someone elses pictures, (B5 ships) not too bothered about fancy mods etc. Not quite sure how to do it. I have copied B5 pictures into a new race file on the main game in the pictures directory "Earth alliance" it didn't have the 6 or so .txt files so I copied the ones out of "Terran" and renamed them.

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Yep, that should work.

quote:

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What I want to be able to do is start a new game, add a "New" empire, set all the characteristics up how I like but just use the pictures of Narn, Minbari etc for their ships, otherwise standard game.

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The game might randomly choose one of those shipsets for the AIs, but that usually isn't a concern for people.
If you want to ensure only the original races get added, only add the extra race that you will be choosing. SE4 won't choose a clone of your race for the AI, and once the game is started, you can re-add the other fancy shipsets.

[Gryphin]

Andy and everyone else
Please read all the way through, it has a surprise ending.
Written Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:30 pm plus or minus:
You are definitely correct. Building Ship Yard Bases and use of mines is much easier, (and on the surface cheaper) than Ship Capture and use of Satellites.
It definitely comes down to play style.
Note:
Ship Capture does not cost more in Research Points. The Return on Investment is huge, (based on my experience against the AI). I don’t know how it would play out against humans. I doubt my style will work against humans. Against the AI, (in general), I will not research shields, fighters, mines, or Ship Construction beyond Frigate. I have almost always acquired these by Ship Capture.
If your opponent responds by retro fitting his ships with Security Stations or Anti Satellite weapons, (such as Point Defense Cannons), you have cost him a great deal of time and expense to counter the Satellites and Boarding Parties. With mines, all he has to do is research mines and build a couple of mine sweepers.
Defend Warp Points With Mines and or Bases
This seems to be the favored way to go at least in the early game.
I guess the way a Human vs Human counter is to put mine sweepers with your fleet or as a component on each ship. I wonder what cost more:
Losing ships to an unexpected mine field or
Including mine sweeping with all fleets.
I suspect I am going to find out the hard way.
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Written Friday morning April 12, 2002 7:30
Uh Oh, I did some sketches and ran some numbers. The flaw in my proposed method did not take into account that planets could be on opposite sides of a system and could not be defended by one fleet. As such, an unexpected hostile could Glass / Capture several planets near a warp point before your centrally positoned fleet could get there.
Mines at warp points is the only way to go. < phew > That Hurt! I hate conceding, still it is better than getting womped by GrowlTigga.
I guess I will be trying:
Mine warp points
Include Sattelites
Use Ship Capture
Don’t build bases at warp points
GrowTigga, (or anyone), what do you think?

PS: I appologies if any of my previous post came across in a negative way.

[capnq]

quote:

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I have copied B5 pictures into a new race file on the main game in the pictures directory "Earth alliance" it didn't have the 6 or so .txt files so I copied the ones out of "Terran" and renamed them.

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Not having the AI .txt files in the race's folder won't do any harm; if the game can't find one of those files, it will substitute one from the AI Default files.

In fact, deleting those files is the quick way to make older shipsets compatible with Gold. A slower way is to follow the instructions linked in my sig.

[Growltigga]

Defend worm holes not planets.

Andy, the decision on this will come down to your own tactical style but keep in mind, I have always been talking about playing the AI - even the Gold AI on the highest settings is hardly a Sun Tzu - IMHO, defending warp points against an AI opponent is simply unsporting, as is using fighters and mines against them

it would cost a lot for research etc to do that and it's not my style

IIRC, the research cost for ship capture isnt really that much, at least not when you take into account what you can get from it, IIRC you research military science (50,000), advanced military science (100,000) and then ship capture (5000) - about the same as level 3 missiles or decent beam weaponry

"it is not your style" is FAR more important, this is a game, it doesnt really matter if you win or lose as long as you enjoy it

I'm not going to use fighters anymore, too fiddly building carriers and fighters and keeping them alltogether.

Aah, this is just experience my boy, my orbital spaceyards will build the carriers (say 7 turns for a light carrier) whilst the colony world builds the fighters but again, it is down to personal preference, I am currently playing a hotseat game and designing a fleet where almost every ship (CL and above) has at least 1 fighter bay - my fighters are all configured for ship-killing - it is an interesting development in power projection

[Growltigga]

bump, I was enjoying the tactical discussions on this thread