New player struggling - Page 13

Gryphin · #**121** April 12th, 2002, 03:14 PM

Andy and everyone else
Please read all the way through, it has a surprise ending.
Written Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:30 pm plus or minus:
You are definitely correct. Building Ship Yard Bases and use of mines is much easier, (and on the surface cheaper) than Ship Capture and use of Satellites.
It definitely comes down to play style.
Note:
Ship Capture does not cost more in Research Points. The Return on Investment is huge, (based on my experience against the AI). I don’t know how it would play out against humans. I doubt my style will work against humans. Against the AI, (in general), I will not research shields, fighters, mines, or Ship Construction beyond Frigate. I have almost always acquired these by Ship Capture.
If your opponent responds by retro fitting his ships with Security Stations or Anti Satellite weapons, (such as Point Defense Cannons), you have cost him a great deal of time and expense to counter the Satellites and Boarding Parties. With mines, all he has to do is research mines and build a couple of mine sweepers.
Defend Warp Points With Mines and or Bases
This seems to be the favored way to go at least in the early game.
I guess the way a Human vs Human counter is to put mine sweepers with your fleet or as a component on each ship. I wonder what cost more:
Losing ships to an unexpected mine field or
Including mine sweeping with all fleets.
I suspect I am going to find out the hard way.
*********************
Written Friday morning April 12, 2002 7:30
Uh Oh, I did some sketches and ran some numbers. The flaw in my proposed method did not take into account that planets could be on opposite sides of a system and could not be defended by one fleet. As such, an unexpected hostile could Glass / Capture several planets near a warp point before your centrally positoned fleet could get there.
Mines at warp points is the only way to go. < phew > That Hurt! I hate conceding, still it is better than getting womped by GrowlTigga.
I guess I will be trying:
Mine warp points
Include Sattelites
Use Ship Capture
Don’t build bases at warp points
GrowTigga, (or anyone), what do you think?

PS: I appologies if any of my previous post came across in a negative way.

Andy Watkins · #**122** April 13th, 2002, 01:28 AM

Defend worm holes not planets.

Comments from all that seem helpful, if I have understood them.....

I can put a fleet on a wormhole indeffinitely, it will not use up supplies until it moves/fights.

I could move a space yard ship to a worm hole, then build a space station with a ship yard in it. Then I could use the space station to build mines, or satellites etc to defend the wormhole.

If I am right this is a lot less trouble than keep building satellites and carrying them around the galaxy.

I just make one cruiser with a space yard, and that goes in turn to every worm hole of importance and builds a space station that then builds it's own defences.

Sound neat??

I like to do my own research, don't really like the idea of disabling ships, capturing them etc. As commented upon it would cost a lot for research etc to do that and it's not my style. Likewise I'm not going to use fighters anymore, too fiddly building carriers and fighters and keeping them alltogether.

I haven't ever bothered with fleet and ship training facilities, but I get the impression from others these are a must have feature??

I am trying to use someone elses pictures, (B5 ships) not too bothered about fancy mods etc. Not quite sure how to do it. I have copied B5 pictures into a new race file on the main game in the pictures directory "Earth alliance" it didn't have the 6 or so .txt files so I copied the ones out of "Terran" and renamed them.

Is that enough?

What I want to be able to do is start a new game, add a "New" empire, set all the characteristics up how I like but just use the pictures of Narn, Minbari etc for their ships, otherwise standard game.

Should I do something different??

Thanks

Andy

capnq · #**123** April 13th, 2002, 01:53 AM

quote:
I have copied B5 pictures into a new race file on the main game in the pictures directory "Earth alliance" it didn't have the 6 or so .txt files so I copied the ones out of "Terran" and renamed them.

Not having the AI .txt files in the race's folder won't do any harm; if the game can't find one of those files, it will substitute one from the AI Default files.

In fact, deleting those files is the quick way to make older shipsets compatible with Gold. A slower way is to follow the instructions linked in my sig.

Growltigga · #**124** April 15th, 2002, 09:51 AM

Defend worm holes not planets.

Andy, the decision on this will come down to your own tactical style but keep in mind, I have always been talking about playing the AI - even the Gold AI on the highest settings is hardly a Sun Tzu - IMHO, defending warp points against an AI opponent is simply unsporting, as is using fighters and mines against them

it would cost a lot for research etc to do that and it's not my style

IIRC, the research cost for ship capture isnt really that much, at least not when you take into account what you can get from it, IIRC you research military science (50,000), advanced military science (100,000) and then ship capture (5000) - about the same as level 3 missiles or decent beam weaponry

"it is not your style" is FAR more important, this is a game, it doesnt really matter if you win or lose as long as you enjoy it

I'm not going to use fighters anymore, too fiddly building carriers and fighters and keeping them alltogether.

Aah, this is just experience my boy, my orbital spaceyards will build the carriers (say 7 turns for a light carrier) whilst the colony world builds the fighters but again, it is down to personal preference, I am currently playing a hotseat game and designing a fleet where almost every ship (CL and above) has at least 1 fighter bay - my fighters are all configured for ship-killing - it is an interesting development in power projection

Growltigga · #**125** April 19th, 2002, 05:06 PM

bump, I was enjoying the tactical discussions on this thread

Gryphin · #**126** April 19th, 2002, 06:55 PM

quote:
I was enjoying the tactical discussions on this thread

Ok, here is one:
Armor vs Shields
Which do you develope first?
Against Humans?
Against AI?
Against Humans I will develope Armor only as a rapid way to Stealth Armor.
Against the AI I will always go for Armor because I know I can capture ships with Shields.
One Light Carrier with Shields will give me a huge amount of Tech.

DirectorTsaarx · #**127** April 19th, 2002, 08:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Growltigga:
<snip>
I'm not going to use fighters anymore, too fiddly building carriers and fighters and keeping them alltogether.

Aah, this is just experience my boy, my orbital spaceyards will build the carriers (say 7 turns for a light carrier) whilst the colony world builds the fighters but again, it is down to personal preference, I am currently playing a hotseat game and designing a fleet where almost every ship (CL and above) has at least 1 fighter bay - my fighters are all configured for ship-killing - it is an interesting development in power projection

Tigga: The other trick is to have your deep colony worlds build the carriers (i.e., 3-4 systems away from the front lines) and build fighters at systems closer to the action. Then, when the carriers are ready, they stop off along the way to pick up fighters. If you time it right, you can even launch the fighters and have them waiting in the carrier's path (my favorite is to stack them over the resupply colony, since I like to "top off the tank" before entering contested systems).

Interesting concept with putting fighter bays on all ships; I've toyed with that from time to time. It's similar to the Hydran race style from Star Fleet Battles...

Gryphin · #**128** April 19th, 2002, 08:42 PM

quote:
It's similar to the Hydran race style from Star Fleet Battles...

And what the Japeniese were trying to build at the end of WWII.

Growltigga · #**129** April 19th, 2002, 09:44 PM

Gryphin, you are dead right

IMHO, fighter bays on each ship (just 1 supported by 1 or more cargo bays) is quite cool. Very Star Wars, very Babs 5

there is not enough threat to have whopping loads of PD, but enough to make a good difference, especially armed up to the tens with FRAMS

Bowmark · #**130** April 20th, 2002, 12:37 AM

This thread is one of the reasons I bought this game. A lot of damn helpful people.

I have a few points and a question:

In regard to mines, they are a huge AI killer and I see both points to that play style. I like using them at warp points to slow down the really aggressive AI like the Romulans and Cardassians (if you are using those ships)

I am having a problem with sats though. I did not really use them since the patch but I put cloaking armor on them and after I cloak them, even if I decloak them, they will not attack enemy ships unless there is a ship of mine there too. Any ideas on this one or is there something I do not know about sats?

Fighters are a HUGE bonus to your fleets but you need super amounts of patience to do the whole fighter thing right. I prefer fighters at planets more than than WP because they can leave and attack a ship before it even gets there if needed.

Lots of good tactics here, can't wait to try them out in my next game.

Thanks all.