vengeance of the dead, how it works with 1000+ ?

[johan osterman]

NTJedi said:

I believe VotD should be adjusted not because of balance reasons, but because events occur which do not make any sense.


This has a few issues which are just logically wrong:

1) Being auto-killed while fleeing during an assassination. Historically and logically incorrect.

2) Successfully fleeing during a dream should at worst cause the target to awaken... maybe with the battle fright affliction.

3) Killing these undead within a dream should not count as kills. This results in one soul being doubled or tripled and appearing in future VotD castings.

4) The battle turn limits... as I understand are 50 the attacker retreats, 75 defender retreats and 100 all attackers are killed. As computers become more and more powerful it would be nice if us gamers had the option of adjusting the battle turn limits. Currently every game we play has this all powerful organized union which forces non-golem attackers to retreat at 5pm... and then forces non-golem defenders to retreat at 8pm. I hate this organized union.

If you did not become auto killed when you fled from assasination it would be very hard to use assasins except on commanders moving with armies. Every player would put all important commanders not currently headed for combat on retreat.

[Zeldor]

johan osterman:

Nah, you wouldn't do that if they would land in neighbouring province. If enemy decided to retreat commanders it would be rather more useful than getting some random kills with assassins.

[johan osterman]

Zeldor said:
johan osterman:

Nah, you wouldn't do that if they would land in neighbouring province. If enemy decided to retreat commanders it would be rather more useful than getting some random kills with assassins.

Which is why I wrote they would put the orders on important commanders not heading for battle. Such as mages researching, casting rituals, site searching, forging. All those would become immune to assasination and assasination spells.

[vfb]

We just need a new battleground for assassinations ... the dead end street the assassin cornered the victim in!

I suggest:

battlemaps/drkalley.d3m
battlemaps/clifedge.d3m
battlemaps/latrine.d3m

[triqui]

If you did not become auto killed when you fled from assasination it would be very hard to use assasins except on commanders moving with armies. Every player would put all important commanders not currently headed for combat on retreat.

That's true. And the turn limit is necesary to avoid game-staling(for example a assasin witn spam-skellie trying to kill a mage with spam-skellie, both with reinvigoration)

But still, the ATTACKER should flee if turn 50 is achieved. That do not happen with VotD, and it is wrong.

[johan osterman]

triqui said:

That's true. And the turn limit is necesary to avoid game-staling(for example a assasin witn spam-skellie trying to kill a mage with spam-skellie, both with reinvigoration)

But still, the ATTACKER should flee if turn 50 is achieved. That do not happen with VotD, and it is wrong.

I guess this work this way because the VotD is placed in a province. Then the victim is teleported there. As the dead are allready in place theyr are considered the defenders. In order to change the defender attacker situation it might be that you would have to have created 2 provinces. 1 where a commander is teleported. 1 where the dead starts. Then move the dead would have to move from their province to the province of the victim. I think it is possible that this would not be accomplishable without major changes to the turn sequence and turn resoluation. Which I know from experience that JK is extremely reluctant to do. Once again because it is the sort of situation that is very liable to break old things and introduce new bugs.

[triqui]

As the dead are allready in place theyr are considered the defenders.

I dont think so. In my battle report, the dead are in the left side of the screen. My SC does the first movement. And on turn 50, i get a "the army of Ryleh is routed" message. Just that the undead do not rout at all (or vanish like golems do)

[johan osterman]

triqui said:

I dont think so. In my battle report, the dead are in the left side of the screen. My SC does the first movement. And on turn 50, i get a "the army of Ryleh is routed" message. Just that the undead do not rout at all (or vanish like golems do)

Ok, I was just speculating. Truth be told. The game trys to rout both sides before it kills off.

[Kuritza]

johan osterman said:
Ok, I was just speculating. Truth be told. The game trys to rout both sides before it kills off.

And there's a rather simple solution - replace these undead with another type of chaff, not mindless. Incredibly brave, like morale 30+, but not immune to rout. Make a special 'avenging soul' creature for VotD, maybe make it slightly tougher to compensate. Problem solved - on turn 50 souls flee, victim wakes up victorious.

[Foodstamp]

Kuritza said:

And there's a rather simple solution - replace these undead with another type of chaff, not mindless. Incredibly brave, like morale 30+, but not immune to rout. Make a special 'avenging soul' creature for VotD, maybe make it slightly tougher to compensate. Problem solved - on turn 50 souls flee, victim wakes up victorious.

This sounds like a simple fix to me .