OT: Our Economy (US)

[Wardad]

What are the real benifits of free open markets?

Smart capable people are allowed to succeed. Their heirs are allowed to lose it. This system benifits the most people via trickle down. It also avoids the problem of frustrated smart capable people leading revolts.

Yes, there can be too much success. Monopolies, pollution, and resource exhaustion violate the "We the People, By the People, For the People" context of the constitution.


----------------------------------------

Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness

[TerranC]

Free Market Economy is the most brilliant idea ever concieved:

--------------------------------------------------

It lets the Government worry about other things than Economic progress as the people living in it are already doing it.

It generates many capitals and revenues for the people, by the people, and to the people.

It creates jobs, and jobs, and jobs.

--------------------------------------------------

And yet: so was Command Economy.

--------------------------------------------------

In a switch the country can turn into a brimming war machine.

What Unemployment?

--------------------------------------------------

If you think about it: Both are outdated.

Both damage the environment.

CCE: Less for the many but everybody has equal amounts.

FME: The bigger they come: Monopolies are a definite possiblity.

FME: The harder they fall: Widespread depression can spread VERY quickly and with surprising responce and quonsequences.

FME: The richer gets richer but the poorer gets poorer.

FME: Rampant destruction of Resources and Cultures and Ways of life for money.

CCE: What goes around, Comes around: If they government doesn't keep checking it everyday, every second, it will collapse.

So there is really not much to talk about the advantages of Economic models. Equilibrium is the only way to go, and that is hard to achieve as figuring out the Missing Link.

[Kinboat]

Wr8th said: 'Yes I can argue it when it's viewed as an entitlement that everyone has a god-given right too without the reasonable expectation that they contribute positively to society themselves'

It's exactly this attitude that some people are more entitled to the basics of human existence that propagates discrimination and hatred in the world. I can only hope if you ever find yourself without food that someone with more compassion will be nearby. Who gets to decide what a 'positive contribution' is? You? Me? Whoever it is won't be fair, everyone has their own biases that they lug around. I have already devoted two years of my life volunteering for others, and I didn't even ask them if they 'earned' my help... I did it because all human life is precious, regardless of their value in the eyes of this government.

[wr8th]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kinboat:
Wr8th said: 'Yes I can argue it when it's viewed as an entitlement that everyone has a god-given right too without the reasonable expectation that they contribute positively to society themselves'

It's exactly this attitude that some people are more entitled to the basics of human existence that propagates discrimination and hatred in the world. I can only hope if you ever find yourself without food that someone with more compassion will be nearby. Who gets to decide what a 'positive contribution' is? You? Me? Whoever it is won't be fair, everyone has their own biases that they lug around. I have already devoted two years of my life volunteering for others, and I didn't even ask them if they 'earned' my help... I did it because all human life is precious, regardless of their value in the eyes of this government.

---

Spare me the sanctimony. As if your personal stint at volunteerism gives you special priviledged insight or that you're the only one to do so.... Please.

Who are you to presume what I've been through?
I'm for giving people a hand-up, not a hand-out. Like helping those who've exhibited the strength of character to try and help themselves and their family (an example of a positive contribution) but have fallen short and are too proud to ask for assistance. A silent, sometimes anonymous hand-up leaves them with more than just the immediate tangible benefit, it also leaves them their integrity. I know. Too many (not all) expect hand-outs simply because they've found it expedient and have been socialized to feel it's their right.

[dmm]

Well, I know one example of what is NOT a positive contribution: lying around doing nothing but getting drunk or high. Can we all agree on that? It seems to me that the only kind response to that is to forcibly take away the addict's freedom long enough to dry him/her out. But some people don't like depriving addicts of their right of self-determination. OK, if that isn't allowed, then the only kind thing to do is to let them get so hungry that they are willing to commit themselves to a detox center. To give an addict free food and shelter is extremely cruel in the long run.
And I submit that the same argument applies to lazy good-for-nothings; it is just not so obvious.
And Lastly, I say why do these extra rights stop at food and shelter? What about clothing, education, transportation, entertainment, recreation, etc.? And it has to be good stuff, because surely dignity is also a basic human right. Would you deny another man dignity, you cold-hearted SOB?

[edit: everyone recognizes the sarcasm at the end there, right?]

[ 10 April 2002: Message edited by: dmm ]

[Krsqk]

Is that something like the idea that the best expression of parental love is not to give a child everything he wants? *gasp* And I thought a five-year old was the most qualified individual to determine exactly what's best for himself.

Bottom line: Best is not synonymous with warm, fuzzy feelings. In fact, warm fuzzy feelings aren't indicative of anything (except sitting with your leg crossed for so long it fell asleep).

[ 11 April 2002: Message edited by: Krsqk ]

[tesco samoa]

Link...

Not my view point or endorced. Just an interesting read.
http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/5208
http://www.ips-dc.org/comment/raskinsigners.htm

[ 11 April 2002: Message edited by: tesco samoa ]