Mod: Conceptual Balance 1.21

[quantum_mechani]

Yeah, maybe now they won't be so obligated to take a SC pretender of their own. And it would be fun if people actually bothered with air shield items on SCs.

[Twan]

I started to test CBM and had a big surprise (and critic) : how/why was it decided to boost more astral and death magic with a discount on mass enslave spells (master enslave and more arcane domination and undead mastery) ?

When other changes look good for me, reducing levels and costs of the most endgame spells of the best paths make IMO balance worse, especially when they are astral spells not supposed to be usable without some mages in a communion (and available so late that you can be sure the caster will have all penetration gear he can carry).

Even if the boost of master enslave looks small it may reduce by 4 or more the number of mages the weak astral nations need to use it (ie : to cast ME with as best astral mage one S4 -boosters counted- you need a 8 slaves communion + one mage casting light of the northern star in base game ; you just need 4 slaves + LNS with CBM ; if your best mage is S3, you need 8 slaves instead of 16, etc). And worse, it become easier for common mages of the nations powerful in astral to cast it out of communions (natural S5 with 2 boosters, S4 with 3, S3 with 3 + support from a mage casting light of the northern star) when in base game the same mages usually need a communion with 4 slaves, all needing to start with S3 and to be supported by a mage casting LoS to survive the fatigue.

The bigger discount on other mass enslave spells allow to chain cast them easily in a communion, making armies of magical beings or undeads more dangerous for their owner than for his ennemy in endgame (of course if the ennemy has astral or in the case of undeads, is a communion capable nation with death mages -it's a boost for Ermor and Utgard vs. non astral death nations).

Mass enslave spells are for me already overpowered in base game as they are in the spell category allowing round one victories in defense against big armies (if you can cast them with full penetration gear before the ennemy can cast antimagic he usually stands no chance to recover). Even at 8 gems ME is very cost effective compared to anything else and limit the armies usable against an astral power to forces of SCs and mages only. So I'd rather nerf all mass enslave more than boost them (S9/900 fatigue for ME, and lvl8/800 for the specialized mass enslave spells, would look better for me, making them not usable without a big communion or specialized pretender).

Now, I've not played a lot with CBM, so enslave boosts may compensate other changes (like more effects for summons which mostly concern non astral nations). But I think, due to the power of round one casting in defense, it would be generally better to avoid to make instant effects affecting the whole battlefield easier to cast or more powerful.

(As well, in the "round one battle winner" category, I think something should be done to reduce the efficiency of rain of stones (limiting the effects to 50% of the ennemies, making it avoidable with defense or air shield if doable, or increasing the cost/requirements a lot). Rain of stones (or worse RoSx2 or 3) cast in round one in defense essentially mean all ennemy 10hp / 0 protection mages will be dead if the ennemy hasn't spend about 10 gems to give a good armor or robe of shadows to each, when in endgame the defender can protect all his own casters with one fog warriors or army of something before the RoS.)

[quantum_mechani]

I had forgotten the generic master enslave got a boost, you are probably right it could go back to normal, I think it was a holdover from dom2 where there were less items to break through MR.

The other enslave spells I'm more skeptical about. I have yet to see them cast in base or CB, and in any case undead and magic beings tend to dominate the late game.

I would not be apposed to tweaking rain of stones, however I don't think it is possible to make air shield negate if it does not already, and defense negates is a bit too similar to earthquake.

[Horst F. JENS]

i hope for an update of this excellent mod as soon as the next patch ( 3.16?) is out.

[Edi]

3.16 has a number of bugs that are being ironed out in beta. It is more likely the next release version is 3.17 or 3.18, depending on how JK and KO wish to go with it.

I expect this mod will be updated sometime after that.

[AreaOfEffect]

I haven't examined the mod in great detail, however, I've recently signed on to play a game using Conceptual Balance. Playing Mictlan I've noticed that the price of my slingers have changed.

Though I understand that most slingers are made to cost less gold, Mictlan's slingers are better stat-wise then the average slinger. Their stats are average all around. A solidly average unit should cost 10 gold plus or minus any racial advantage. The racial advantage for Mictlan is forest survival and an already cheap cost. (The solidly average troops of Mictlan are 9 gold.)

Making the slingers even cheaper seems to me to break the standard. Gold pays for the experience of the soldier and resource pays for their gear. That said, the fact they are slingers are expressed in their cheap resource cost, not their gold cost.

Though this objection calls for me to be put at a disadvantage, especially since I plan on using slingers in my strategy, I think they are unfairly priced in this mod. The Mictlan slinger can beat the daylights out of a normal slinger any day. They have the attack value, the defense value, the moral score, the encumbrance, and the movement of a soldier, therefore, I think they should be priced as a soldier with the standard Mictlan racial advantage of 9 gold.

I'm of course willing to here the reasoning for this change before I determine this to be my final opinion.

[quantum_mechani]

Well, if you want the short answer, it's because Mictlan's sacred troops so far outclass all their other options.

The more thematic explanation is that I've increased Mictlan'a racial advantage, with respect to normal troops prices, to cost only 7 gold by default. Perhaps this could be seen as a drastic step, but I have yet to hear anyone complain about Mictlan being more terrifying with slingers than jaguar warriors.