Fleets pass each other by??

[DavidG]

Originally posted by [K126]Mephisto:

A ship with speed 6 would get a movement point every 5 days (30/6=5).
A ship with speed 10 would get a movement point every 3 days (30/10=3).

So the net result of that is that if opposing fleets have the same speed combat is very difficult if they keep moving. If the fleets are moving in opposite directions and start an even number of spaces apart combat will not occur.

[capnq]

Once you're aware of the problem, you can adjust the interceptors' movement orders to compensate.

For example, instead of just giving the attack order, move one square "sideways" before the attack.

[Wardad]

this is as clear as mud... but important...

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Wardad:
this is as clear as mud... but important...

Yes, it took me a bit to get my mind around it as well, but I think I can explain it.

Alpha fleet is at point A with orders to move to point B. Beta fleet is at point B with orders to attack Alpha Fleet. Assuming both fleet have the same speed...

If Point A and B are an odd number of sectors apart, both fleets move towards each other until they both move into the same sector, at which time combat occurs.

If Points A and B are an even number of spots apart, both fleets move towards each other one sector at a time until they are in adjoining sectors. At this point they move simultaneously and cross paths because Fleet B is moving to the sector being vacated by B and B is moving into he sector being vacated by A. Since combat cannot occur between sectors, no combat occurs because they never occupied the same sector at any particular point in time. Now Alpha is past Beta and can continue moving towards spot B with Beta fleet persueing, but never quite catching up. Always staying one behind. Unless of course Beta fleet reaches point B and Alpha fleet still has movement remaining, as occured in the example given at the begining of this thread.

So if your fleets are an even number of sectors apart and you believe the enemy is attempting to get past you, by scooting one space to the side first and then giving the order to attack will allow the enemy to close the gap one space and get you to an odd number of sectors apart. Of course this assumes you are correct in the enemies direction of movement. If they are moving anyway but towards you you have only allowed them a head start in getting away.

Also note, saying they have to have movement remaining to initiate combat is not technically correct, as they could expend their Last movement point entering the sector with the enemy and combat would happen, as long as the enemy wasn't moving out of that sector at the same time. This is not always clear from watching the simultaneous turn replay as you don't actually see the ships all moving at once. You have to remember everything is broken up into phases.

Geoschmo

[ June 17, 2002, 19:11: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Mephisto]

When both fleets are in adjacent squares, then it works like this:

Player A, which is moving to a planet and is on top of the player list, moves first and he moves into the fleet of Player B who is intercepting fleet A. Player A has now spent his movement point.
Player B, who is below Player A on the player list, can now move. As his fleet is already in the same square as the target he wishes to intercept, he spends his movement point to attack the enemy.

I'm not totally sure if you really need a movement point to initiate combat but definitely the fleets will not swap their places hunting each other. The player who is topmost of the playerlist will move first, players below after him in order of the list. The only way you can be screwed is when you are the topmost player IMHO because then and only then your ships will move before the other players down the list will move.

[ June 17, 2002, 23:22: Message edited by: [K126]Mephisto ]

[Wardad]

Mephisto may have explained the intercept problems I was having as 1st player in simultaneous move game.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by [K126]Mephisto:
I'm not totally sure if you really need a movement point to initiate combat but definitely the fleets will not swap their places hunting each other. The player who is topmost of the playerlist will move first, players below after him in order of the list. The only way you can be screwed is when you are the topmost player IMHO because then and only then your ships will move before the other players down the list will move.

You are indeed correct Mephisto. I had not accounted for player order in my tests.

If the player lower in turn is seeking to avoid combat he should be able to assuming he is at least as fast as the enemy. In the example I gave they would in fact swap places as the second player would be moving out of the sector as soon as the first player moved into it. If the places were reversed and it was player 2 seeking after player 1 then combat would indeed occur.

This makes sense when you consider what I said before about all this stuff actually occuring in phases. Combat occurs after the movement phase. Both players will do their movement phase and then if they are in the same sector after both, then combat occurs. If player 1 moves into the same sector as player two in their part of the movement phase, and player 2 is seeking after player 1, they would not need to move anywhere and that would end the movement phase.

I am quite certain about not needing available movement to initiate combat though. If you expend your Last movement point during that "day" and at the end of that day during the combat phase you are in the same sector with your target, combat will occur.

This actually gives a bit of an advantage to the players lower in order, as opposed to the old in combat advantage that went to the player higher in order. I am not sure this is something you would want to change though. Not sure how you would change it actually.

Geoschmo

[Marvin Kosh]

I think your best bet there is to have your colony ships take a hike away from the intruders rather than sit around, they're less of a target that way. Then you should be able to intercept the enemy ships before they hit your colony ships.

I usually have a few ships sitting around in a front-line system that are loaded with as many engines as they'll take, plus solar sail, and basically no extra supplies. They can't go far but you can pack some extra armour and stuff in the space that would have been devoted to supply. Once you get a quantum reactor this is pretty much redundant though, since you can send those same ships to escort your planet-pounders out to enemy territory.

EDIT: Uh, I forgot to read page 1. D'oh!

[ June 18, 2002, 13:37: Message edited by: Marvin Kosh ]

[Krakenup]

Originally posted by [K126]Mephisto:
When both fleets are in adjacent squares, then it works like this:

Player A, which is moving to a planet and is on top of the player list, moves first and he moves into the fleet of Player B who is intercepting fleet A. Player A has now spent his movement point.

... but I thought that if Player A did not have a treaty with Player B, Player A's fleet would try to go around Player B instead of moving into the same sector. ??

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by Krakenup:
... but I thought that if Player A did not have a treaty with Player B, Player A's fleet would try to go around Player B instead of moving into the same sector. ??

Actually, you are right. It was just for the ease of explanation.
If A is not moving into the occupied sector, the whole thing is even easier. A will move to another adjacent sector and B will intercept him there.