Abanoned artillery

Cross · #1 June 23rd, 2009, 08:36 PM

I agree with you Imp. But keep in mind the SP context, where we typically choose any friendly equipment we want, and it 'arrives' with full crew, full ammo, no mechanical issues.

If you were to agree to use captured equipment, it would be completely reasonable to insist that a piece of captured equipment be available for only the next three battles; assuming it isn't KO.

cheers,
Cross

RERomine · #2 June 23rd, 2009, 09:29 PM

With respect to only vehicles only, can the be captured "intact"? Will a crew bail out of an undamaged vehicle? I think they will bail out of an immobilized vehicle, but if it's not immobilized they will rout, vehicle and all. I've never paid very close attention to that.

In general, I make a practice of destroying abandoned enemy equipment. Having it come back to life after the crew regained some intestinal fortitude is not something I like to happen.

Xrati · #3 June 23rd, 2009, 09:46 PM

Don't forget about running out of fuel and leaving 'on foot' to get away. I do not beleive that many tanks were captured in battle, but rather abandoned for lack of fuel or having a breakdown.

Imp · #4 June 23rd, 2009, 10:50 PM

Yes naughty crew they were supposed to destroy the tank when they left. If look at records for Tigers lost at the end of the war I think you will find more were destroyed by there crews than enemy fire. Mainly due to a lack of petrol & it being a bit heavy to push.

Imp · #5 June 23rd, 2009, 11:20 PM

Cross
Its entirely upto you as a player what you think would be reasonably common.
My view is infantry weapons yes to an extent but vehicles they are probably struggling to keep there own stuff going let alone work on something they are not used to apart from basic transport like a truck.

Most players would get the hump if they bought a company of 10 tanks & only 3 showed up at the start with another couple arriving later. You could no doubt model a second movement class that has a % to breakdown for every hex entered. You know petrols nearly gone just dont know when its going to run out.
Same thing goes for ammo loads including infantry you would just micro manage keepinng an eye on by keep looking up.
Guessing here but in the heat of combat think you should just be more selective with targets. Notice ammos getting low & the next warning is a shout of last round

Cross · #6 June 23rd, 2009, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RERomine

With respect to only vehicles only, can the be captured "intact"? Will a crew bail out of an undamaged vehicle? I think they will bail out of an immobilized vehicle, but if it's not immobilized they will rout, vehicle and all. I've never paid very close attention to that.

In general, I make a practice of destroying abandoned enemy equipment. Having it come back to life after the crew regained some intestinal fortitude is not something I like to happen.

Hi Ray,

You are right that in SP vehicles will usually be immobolized or badly damaged before crews bail. However, I've bailed crews from still running vehicles in an attempt to extract the crew on foot.

IRL, vehicles may merely need a track repair or wheel change; but the crew sensibly bailed and ran because they couldn't do this in the middle of the battle, and they no doubt hoped to recover the vehicle later.

Crews will often not have time/ablity (under fire/panicked) to destroy their vehicle, or may choose not to, because they hope to recover it.

The agreement only allows you to use abandoned equipment that finishes the battle under your control, therefore was not recovered.

By choosing not to destroy an overrun piece of kit, you won't gain the points/experience for the KO. But what's a few points when you can get your hands on a slightly used Panther G

Please keep in mind that I generally don't allow the purchase of captured equipment. But this seems a good way - in Campaigns - to utilise this facet of SP.

cheers,
Simon

Imp · #7 June 24th, 2009, 12:00 AM

Slightly diffrent & do more in MBT but can use a diffrent force for support if agree, normaly use a force with worse equipment but could do the other way.
If do normaly say any extra air or arty may come from either force but not both but all other units must come from supporting nation.
So could do Hungary with German support in WW2 or S.Korea with Australian or US support for instance.
Has the advantage sort of of knowing whose in your core, thing is your opponent does to.

RERomine · #8 June 24th, 2009, 10:41 AM

I've also manually bailed crews out of tanks to save both the crew and the tank. The tank was immobilized by artillery and still in the impact zone so I bailed the crew and retrieved them very quickly with an APC and scooted. This was very gamey however since it rendered the tank immune to the artillery once the crew bailed, so I haven't done it since. It just didn't feel right. I will still bail crews if there is a real world purpose for it, but I don't do it to take advantage of a game loophole anymore.

I agree it does take a bit of time to abandon and destroy a tank properly. We would removed the .30cal machine guns, lock open the ammo doors, put a round under the gun breach and then drop a thermite grenade in the breach. Not something you want to do with the clock ticking and being under fire could mean you might not get out before the grenade burns through the breach and to the live round underneath. This was for an M1A1 Abrams. I suspect the procedure would be different for WWII era tanks and might be a more lengthy process. Not sure on that.

Not being impacted in the game by outside influences such as replacement part problems, isolation, etc., I've never used equipment from other "friendly" nations during my battles. There have been instances where I used so called "captured" equipment, but only because it was on my purchase list to begin with. I recall using some T-34s in North Africa as the Germans for some reason, probably for the novelty of it. It is unlikely they would have really shipped any there.

Within the game, it's all personal preference. There is no "wrong" way about things. If people want to use captured equipment or simulate it somehow, more power to them.

Imp · #9 June 24th, 2009, 01:51 PM

As you say its all personnel prefference I put the idea forward as it allows more choice of weapons like using captured stuff. They would be profficent with its use but still it does not happen that often even if you have several forces fighting on the same side they are looking after there own sectors. It is after all a game & rare sights are seen in it all the time