M10, Wolverine, Achilles Self-Propelled Guns

[Cross]

Originally Posted by cbo

Why, then, do you think its take on names are credible....?
cbo

Hi CBO,

I don't. I never used that source to suggest anything about names. That source was merely showing where the armour quote came from. And my reference treated the source with scepticism.

Look, I have constantly agreed with you that 'Wolverine and Achilles' were probably not used by WWII troops. My very first reply to you made that clear, and I've continued to agree with you.

My assertion (stated in my first reply and subsequently) is that the game should use names that are universally accepted and recognised by 21st Century players.

Advanced Squad Leader: Wolverine and Achilles

Battlefront and Flames of War Minatures: Wolverine and Achilles

Bovington Tank Museum: "Precise Name: 17 Pounder Achilles Mark IIc"

But BTM lists this vehicle as "M10 (17Pdr)" which is historically correct.

CBO, remind me never to play ancient Eygyptian/Roman wargaming with you: "Dude, it's not a catapult it's a Catapultae Marcus XVII."

peace,
Cross

[cbo]

lmp, Cross

When arguments fail, one hears only mockery and silence

I might want to remind Cross, that he initially wrote, as a argument for changing the names of the M10 in the British OOB:

British names
‘Wolverine’, was the British name for the above unconverted M10’s in British service, but Achilles I/II was the official British name for unconverted M10’s, aka. 3in SP Wolverine.

Achilles Ic/IIc, was the British name for M10’s converted to 17Pdr gun. aka. 17Pdr SP Achilles.

As I think we both agree now, Wolverine was never a British name for anything and that Achilles was a name only used within the walls of the DTD, not even being used in manuals for the M10.

In your initial post you never made the argument that the game should use these names because they were in common use or well known by players in the 21st Century.

Hence my argument that it would be silly to change the name from something which obviously works to something which is simply wrong in the case of "Wolverine".

I have no real beef with your revised position that the game should use names that players recognize when possible.

Personally, I would go for something as close to what the vehicles were actually called, if possible, as I see no harm in a game being educational and aid in dispelling old myths, be it with regards to tactics, performance or, in this case names.

cbo

PS: lmp, I'm not getting "heated", I'm just persistent. But I must admit, perhaps, to a slight intolerance of people arguing on the basis of pseudofacts and thing they just make up