Terrain Protection

[Cross]

Sand Dunes

Soft sand is also called 'sand dunes' in the game guide, not ‘quick sand’ - and the fact that this terrain can easily immobilize vehicles - doesn't suggest low undulating/rolling changes in the surface but higher mounds of sand.

I've been in a lot of sand dunes, and they offer superb defensive possibilities. They may be horrible for wheeled vehicles, but they absorb bombs, shells and bullets. Sand dunes are one of the reasons so many of the BEF were safely evacuated from Dunkirk.

There is no doubt that 'soft sand' can easily immobilise vehicles, and the Game Guide says 'volcanic sand' is similar to 'soft sand'.

I assume volcanic sand can represent the dunes found on some pacific islands. But volcanic sand is also described in the game guide as being like a light scree with rocks, small stones and grit.

Don’t forget this game ‘models’ at least two other types of sand terrain: there’s ‘sand’ which is flat or beach terrain offering ‘very poor’ protection; and there’s sand colored ‘clear’ terrain, often used in the desert, which gives ‘poor’ protection...I think?

Underlying Terrain

The game guide does tell us that bridges and rail track negate underlying terrain, but I’ve not seen info on roads.

I would imagine that if you have troops running down a paved road, that crosses a field, and they start to get shelled, they would be better off if they got off the road. But it's possible the game considers them able to take cover at the side of the road?

Some terrain can be cumulative, for example: trees on top of a crop field etc. but not sure what other features can enhance underlying terrain?

The game guide is rather sketchy and vague on terrain protection. Which was why I hoping to get some feedback. One could set up a number of tests, but with there’s a lot of different types of terrain…

Perhaps I just need to pay more attention to casualties in relation to terrain as I play.


Cross

[Imp]

Fair point on the dunes, as to roads rail I assumed negates terrain below for the following reason.
If you mouse over roads etc it just says road, other combined terrain lists both so assume its cumulative as in trees, clear or trees rough. So take it if in a road hex you are considered on it not in the other terrain, also based on fire at units in rough road vs rough from observation they seem more vulnerable on the first.

[Mobhack]

Remember to consider other factors.

Stationary or moving.

Vehicle or foot. (Grunts get better protection in rough than vehicles)

Type of fire - direct or indirect. Cluster or flame or HE or whatever.

Up hill or down dale - a tank on higher terrain tends to be considered at least part hull down, and so receive more turret hits than hull. (That may be bad for Pz4s with the thin front turret.. but that was true IRL)

And - no there is no "integrated table of protection values" - it is spread throughout the code, so even I could not really state one way or the other without a detailed read through. Which I am not going to be doing.

A HE round going off in mud, swamp, lake, snowdrifts, river, soft sand or volcanic sand is deemed to be impacting in soft stuff, and has a slight HE kill deduction. But not if cluster.

Soft sand is dunes (it has a height component over plain desert hexes). Volcanic sand is really peculiar to Iwo Jima, and a very few other places like it. Both are somewhat horrible to operate wheeled or less so, tracked vehicles.

Me - I tend to gravitate to rough terrain hexes esp those with a handy friendly or enemy supplied shell hole. Guess what type of hex I look for in my rear zone, when deploying my mortars or howitzers? .

Cheers
Andy

[Kartoffel]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Remember to consider other factors.

Stationary or moving.

Vehicle or foot. (Grunts get better protection in rough than vehicles)

Type of fire - direct or indirect. Cluster or flame or HE or whatever.

Up hill or down dale - a tank on higher terrain tends to be considered at least part hull down, and so receive more turret hits than hull. (That may be bad for Pz4s with the thin front turret.. but that was true IRL)

And - no there is no "integrated table of protection values" - it is spread throughout the code, so even I could not really state one way or the other without a detailed read through. Which I am not going to be doing.

A HE round going off in mud, swamp, lake, snowdrifts, river, soft sand or volcanic sand is deemed to be impacting in soft stuff, and has a slight HE kill deduction. But not if cluster.

Soft sand is dunes (it has a height component over plain desert hexes). Volcanic sand is really peculiar to Iwo Jima, and a very few other places like it. Both are somewhat horrible to operate wheeled or less so, tracked vehicles.

Me - I tend to gravitate to rough terrain hexes esp those with a handy friendly or enemy supplied shell hole. Guess what type of hex I look for in my rear zone, when deploying my mortars or howitzers? .

Cheers
Andy

I'm guessing rough or forest. Shell holes don't exist at the beginning of the game except for a select few maps.

[Cross]

Originally Posted by Kartoffel

I'm guessing rough or forest. Shell holes don't exist at the beginning of the game except for a select few maps.

Come on Kartoffel, 'sharpen up' he virtually spelled it out for you.

But anyway...trees on rough is excellent defensive terrain, but not my first choice for artillery. Trees catch fire, so when I see enemy artillery parked in trees I often target it with counter-battery; because towed guns, and even mortars, can be pain to move.


Cross

[Kartoffel]

Originally Posted by Cross

Come on Kartoffel, 'sharpen up' he virtually spelled it out for you.

But anyway...trees on rough is excellent defensive terrain, but not my first choice for artillery. Trees catch fire, so when I see enemy artillery parked in trees I often target it with counter-battery; because towed guns, and even mortars, can be pain to move.
Cross

You make a good point, when defending nonflammable terrain is > than flammable terrain.

When I have the opportunity to dig in on a city grid map, I prefer non-building hexes for this very reason.

[Imp]

I am thinking you have a spammer here Cross