Night of the Long Knives?

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

For the Record: Sombre never said he would not abide by the rules. He disparaged the -10 point penalty for the initial offense as meaningless. To whit:

"-10 points oh noes"
'[the penalty] means as much to me as forgetting to buy milk at the grocery store.'

(second one paraphrased because i'm going off memory)

I am a fan of "fan-made justice" but can a mod come here and tell me this a lie?
No really, someone tell me he wasn't permabanned for this.

Neither is burnsaber. So the two most prolific modders in the community are gone for good, and that section of the forum will be much, much quieter without them.

I see dark times ahead

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by Swan

I am a fan of "fan-made justice" but can a mod come here and tell me this a lie?
No really, someone tell me he wasn't permabanned for this.

I see dark times ahead

Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure no one can do this.

[Trumanator]

Originally Posted by Swan

I am a fan of "fan-made justice" but can a mod come here and tell me this a lie?
No really, someone tell me he wasn't permabanned for this.

I see dark times ahead

Apparently, the privacy of those banned would be violated if the reason for their banning was revealed.

[Annette]

[

Originally Posted by Swan

I am a fan of "fan-made justice" but can a mod come here and tell me this a lie?
No really, someone tell me he wasn't permabanned for this.

Really, do some of you believe I would ban any user for writing, "-10 points oh noes"? No, Swan, Sombre was not banned for this alone. But that nugget didn't help his case.

Originally Posted by Frozen Lama

Its sad but true that Sombre isn't going to get unbanned. That would require Shrapnel to admit they were wrong, and that just can't happen. Besides, they don't give a F*** about you guys anymore anyways. you already bought the game, they have your money so buzz off. Or, be like shrapnel staff and stick very large implements up your rear.

If we truly didn't care about you and our other customers, would we bother with these forums? Of course, we'd like to sell more games...after all, that's our job. But if we wanted to take your money and run, why are we here?

I have no expectation that anything I say is going to make those of you in an uproar change your minds. But I'm going to try to address some of the crap being tossed around here.

Amongst the Annette and Shrapnel bashing, we have heard some very compelling arguments why the decision to ban Sombre should be reconsidered (and I appreciate those considered posts). The reality is, it's a moot point. As far as I know, Sombre has no desire to return. And if he did, we would reconsider only if he were willing to respect our terms.

I have a thick skin, and I'm actually quite impressed how some of you have managed to put words in my mouth. Sombre was not banned for one post, nor for one private message. He was banned because he continually violated, and later indicated that he would not abide by, the terms of use we set forth for these boards. Apparently there are many of you who think, 1) we should have no rules or, 2) we should let Sombre have his own set of rules. I have absolutely no wish to hurt the community (what does our company stand to gain from that?), nor am I interested in any kind of power-play. But Shrapnel Games will not successfully run a company forum with either points 1 or 2 above in play.

Everyone who buys our games or is considering buying our games is welcome here, if they abide by the rules. These are Shrapnel Games' forums, and what we allow to happen here reflects on us as a company. That is why we have the rules we do. We won't allow anyone to intentionally disregard the rules. And we won't allow anyone to intentionally run off new members.

Sombre will continue to make his mods I am sure, and there are many places he can post them. So talk with him about where he is going.

[Frozen Lama]

Originally Posted by Annette

I have a thick skin, and I'm actually quite impressed how some of you have managed to put words in my mouth. Sombre was not banned for one post, nor for one private message. He was banned because he continually violated, and later indicated that he would not abide by, the terms of use we set forth for these boards. Apparently there are many of you who think, 1) we should have no rules or, 2) we should let Sombre have his own set of rules. I have absolutely no wish to hurt the community (what does our company stand to gain from that?), nor am I interested in any kind of power-play. But Shrapnel Games will not successfully run a company forum with either points 1 or 2 above in play.

Glad to see you continue to be deliberatly obtuse about one of the main questions. If he was "continually violating" your sacred rules, why didnt you follow your own sacred procedures? continually means overtime. i guess you just decided to make a special case for Sombre by permabanning him and not give him your three strikes rule. seems pretty darn hypocrtical to me. And if you use the other part of the rule that lets you permaban him instantly, well good job. you've made the community more harmonius. We aren't giving him his own special set of rules. you are. And you look stupid for it. We know by now that your ego's are too hurt to back down at this point, but maybe, just maybe, we can get you to admit you were a little overzealous.

[Trumanator]

Originally Posted by Annette

Sombre was not banned for one post, nor for one private message. He was banned because he continually violated, and later indicated that he would not abide by, the terms of use we set forth for these boards. Apparently there are many of you who think, 1) we should have no rules or, 2) we should let Sombre have his own set of rules. I have absolutely no wish to hurt the community (what does our company stand to gain from that?), nor am I interested in any kind of power-play. But Shrapnel Games will not successfully run a company forum with either points 1 or 2 above in play.

So the new story is that you banned him because of a perceived lack of respect for the rules. So somehow the fact that he didn't give a rat's @ss about your two bit warnings and almighty mod powers made an instant perma ban somehow applicable under this rule:

A permanent ban can be applied for any reason if the Admins determine it is warranted to promote the harmony of the community.

Great job, I can see that you've successfully promoted harmony in the community. Leaving that aside however, tell me how in the hell his private communications with you could possibly affect community harmony? Obviously they can't because they're PRIVATE. So really, you're just trying to cover up the fact that you broke you're own policies because you couldn't stand someone who didn't "Respect mah authority," or you violated your own policies that called for a preliminary temp ban.

[Rookierookie]

Originally Posted by Trumanator

So the new story is that you banned him because of a perceived lack of respect for the rules. So somehow the fact that he didn't give a rat's @ss about your two bit warnings and almighty mod powers made an instant perma ban somehow applicable under this rule:

That's not a new story. That has been her original point all along.

[Annette]

Originally Posted by Trumanator

So the new story is that you banned him because of a perceived lack of respect for the rules. So somehow the fact that he didn't give a rat's @ss about your two bit warnings and almighty mod powers made an instant perma ban somehow applicable under this rule:

Great job, I can see that you've successfully promoted harmony in the community. Leaving that aside however, tell me how in the hell his private communications with you could possibly affect community harmony? Obviously they can't because they're PRIVATE. So really, you're just trying to cover up the fact that you broke you're own policies because you couldn't stand someone who didn't "Respect mah authority," or you violated your own policies that called for a preliminary temp ban.

New story? How so? My post from last night:

I'm the one who banned Sombre. Don't blame our volunteer moderators, please. We're all very saddened by this and don't take it lightly. We (Shrapnel Games' staff) understand that Sombre has made many positive contributions to these boards. On the other hand, he/she continually violated the rules we have established and expect every forum member to observe. We actually gave some extra rope in this case, encouraging Sombre to continue participating positively without breaking our forum guidelines. Unfortunately, Sombre was not willing to do this.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Annette

I have a thick skin, and I'm actually quite impressed how some of you have managed to put words in my mouth. Sombre was not banned for one post, nor for one private message. He was banned because he continually violated, and later indicated that he would not abide by, the terms of use we set forth for these boards. Apparently there are many of you who think, 1) we should have no rules or, 2) we should let Sombre have his own set of rules. I have absolutely no wish to hurt the community (what does our company stand to gain from that?), nor am I interested in any kind of power-play. But Shrapnel Games will not successfully run a company forum with either points 1 or 2 above in play.

First, I want to make clear I'm not trying to bash anyone. I have no personal agenda here. I don't even personally like Sombre, although I do respect the modding work he's done.

What does bother me is that what you say doesn't match up with either what he's said (and I have no reason to believe he's lied) nor his infraction record. He had a warning that was long since expired, and the -10pts he received from the current violation that sparked this entire chain of events. That's not an especially 'continual' problem. If Sombre was such a continual problem, why doesn't he have a long record of disciplinary action? Where are the temp bans?

I don't like being lied to, and I don't like seeing people treated unfairly. Unfortunately, all the evidence available suggests that is exactly what is happening here. If you want to change people's minds, its going to require actual evidence. As a trained scientist, I for one tend to prefer the hypothesis that the evidence actually supports.

[SciencePro]

Originally Posted by Annette

Amongst the Annette and Shrapnel bashing, we have heard some very compelling arguments why the decision to ban Sombre should be reconsidered (and I appreciate those considered posts). The reality is, it's a moot point. As far as I know, Sombre has no desire to return. And if he did, we would reconsider only if he were willing to respect our terms.

Okay, I have a suggestion then. In cases like this, institute a temporary ban and require that, as a condition of reinstatement, the member calms down, acknowledges that he or she broke the rules and agrees to follow them in the future. If the person isn't willing to follow the rules or continues to be hostile in general, then continue the ban indefinitely. If the person gets angry and quits then fine.

If the person is re-instated and the problem reoccurs then bring out the perma-banhammer.