Space Empires 5

[Arkcon]

[quote]Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
Arkcon, that we me that suggested ordinance.

I've been lurking awhile, I recognize the lion by the print of his paw

But I think the same thing could be done even more simply. Just have weapons that use actual physical amunition track their own amunition.

This would be simpler.

I think MM could implement that even in SE IV. Now, some people might get angry at not being able to 'move ammunition around' between

Now hold on there Tex, this is a big change in tactics for everyone -- MM might want to save this for a new Version so people don't get ticked off. I don't think it's worth MM's time to alter the code, and not make it the default -- that is only to be done in mods or by game setup switch, or maybe it is?

[geoschmo]

Actually Baron, if you "grey" the ammunition thing a bit it could work. Don't get particular on missle, or DUC ammo. Just make all weapons use the generic ammo. Then you could have ammo storage compartments, and ships in a fleet could share ammo the way ships share supply now. Maybe add an ability to create ammo at the cost of supplies, for the inevitable Trek mod replicators, but I those should be used sparingly if at all.

Would you have energy wepons use ammo, or standard supplies?

Geoschmo

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Arkcon:
Now hold on there Tex, this is a big change in tactics for everyone -- MM might want to save this for a new Version so people don't get ticked off. I don't think it's worth MM's time to alter the code, and not make it the default -- that is only to be done in mods or by game setup switch, or maybe it is?

He could very easily add an optional "uses ammo" attribute that would not be in the stock game, but allow modders to change components to it if they wanted. One modder might want to make DUCS use ammo only and no supplies, while another might want some of both. But the stock game could have it use only supply.

As far as tracking ammo level, it would be in the code whether or not the particular mod was taking advantage of it. He could either just have it display a bar for ammo that was ignored, or maybe have a settings.txt entry to state whether ammo is to be used or not in the mod. It's doable, but it would be fairly complex.

And btw, if you are ever in dubt about who might have suggested something but you can't quite remember, it's a good bet it was Baron. He is a quite prolific "idea man".

Geoschmo

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Actually Baron, if you "grey" the ammunition thing a bit it could work. Don't get particular on missle, or DUC ammo. Just make all weapons use the generic ammo. Then you could have ammo storage compartments, and ships in a fleet could share ammo the way ships share supply now. Maybe add an ability to create ammo at the cost of supplies, for the inevitable Trek mod replicators, but I those should be used sparingly if at all.

Would you have energy wepons use ammo, or standard supplies?

Geoschmo

As I edited into the previous post, only some weapons would use 'both' energy and ordinance in my original idea. The advantage of energy weapons is just that they don't need 'special' amunition but use just the ship's energy reserves. With a clear limit on the number of 'shots' you could give seekers a much better advantage in total damage inflicted.

What got me thinking of 'counting' shots though, was that missiles ought to be able to have different types of warheads. If they have different types then you'd have to be able to keep count of how many of each type you had. I guess you'd do that by using different components and just refitting a ship with a different missile component when you wanted to change it. Keeping track of individual missiles in missile magazines could be headed for that 'micromanagement hell' thing again. Although if you really want this you can do it with drones.

[Barnacle Bill]

Starfire, at the height of its micromanagement (3rd Edition ISF rules before SM2), made you actually build different types of missiles, and store them in magazines on your ships, and track them getting used up in combat. It was rather like drones in SEIV now.

[Andrés]

Then you could have ammo storage compartments, and ships in a fleet could share ammo the way ships share supply now.

What you like how ships share supplies now???
I think that the ability to transfer supplies.
Maybe keep the auto-share in fleets, to avoid micro some managing. But I want to have a large transport go to the fleet carrying ammo and other supplies nad then GO BACK to the depots to pick up more without carring back a large portion of what it brought.

I also like the one type of ammo for every weapon and even or even more than one. Perhaps you can research better shells, or missiles for the cannon or missile tube you already have.

And also the idea of having supply generation have a cost and use this cost to replace current manteinance cost. A ship could be expensive to build but cheap to mantain or viceversa.

[ July 12, 2002, 23:19: Message edited by: Andr&eacutes Lescano ]

[Pax]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
I kind of like this energy/ordinance idea. It adds some detail, without too much detail. Running out of ordinance has obvious implications as far as missles and projectile weapons. What would be the implications for the ship as a whole if it used up all it's ordinance and still had energy? Would it still be able to move, just not shoot, except for energy weapons? You have engines and energy weapons using a "tiny" amount of ordinance. What is this? Spare parts maybe? Would a complete lack of ordinance then cause engines to not function?

Geo

Take the idea of splitting supplies into Energy and Ordinance one step further -- perhaps repairing damaged components takes from the generic pool of Ordinance (said now also representing spare parts, as well as just bullets*) ... ? Might make establishing forward -bases- more important, especially in High tech games (instead of just slappign a Repair Bay III on every warship design, heh).

It would also help if SE5 tracked partial damage from one turn to the next -- then, lack of Ordinance-supplies could cause slow, progressive damage to all components that have to go without (in reverse order to your repair priorities, IOW, whatever you thinkis most important to fix, will be the Last thing to wear out for lack fo spare parts). So, no, your engines wouldn't stop working because you lacked spare parts ... but they will eventually break if you don't resupply the ship soon.

An increased need for spare parts based on higher and higher technology base could also provide a reason for building ships with "obsolete" technology -- you may be able to build better, but the "old-tech" stuff is FAR easier to keep in good repair "nowadays" ...

You'd also want to consider splitting the Supply storage component into "Magazine" and "Batteries" components.