Trying to improve my MA Abyssia Pretender Design

[DeadlyShoe]

Didn't say you should base a national strategy around them, i just said they wern't crap. Even with just a +3 strength bless, which I think is pretty common for Abyssia, they hit 20 str in a heat 3 province. 23 with Berserk. So 2 29-damage attacks at 16 AS, optimally. 18 AS against shields (if I understand the morningstar bonus correctly). That's without considering Rush of Strength and the like.

And how much do they need shields themselves? They're immune to flaming arrows and have high enough protection to mostly ignore regular arrows.

Granted they are expensive, I agree, perhaps too expensive. But there's not much else to do with your cap resources.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by DeadlyShoe

Didn't say you should base a national strategy around them, i just said they wern't crap. Even with just a +3 strength bless, which I think is pretty common for Abyssia, they hit 20 str in a heat 3 province. 23 with Berserk. So 2 29-damage attacks at 16 AS, optimally. 18 AS against shields (if I understand the morningstar bonus correctly). That's without considering Rush of Strength and the like.

And how much do they need shields themselves? They're immune to flaming arrows and have high enough protection to mostly ignore regular arrows.

Granted they are expensive, I agree, perhaps too expensive. But there's not much else to do with your cap resources.

17 defense isn't that high. Ask MA Ulm how useful it is in keeping troops alive. And they acquire fatigue fast enough that even indies are a threat (especially given the numbers you can field them in). Lava warriors are *unplayable* without E9.

Attack damage is all well and good if you can *hit* anything, which given all their attacks are at 10, well, half of those are missing outright against most indies, and most of the other half are hitting shields (which gives the indie some 24+ protection unless its militia). So now you're expected to do <1 damage with the average 'hit'. But even so, a strength bless is *not* what they want. Tough sacreds want to outlast the opposition (reinvigoration, regeneration, +protection), not kill it quickly.

And can ignore arrows, lol. 17 protection does not let you ignore arrows, shields let you ignore arrows. And pray your opponents don't bring xbows. (Fire arrows are still magical, btw, and thus still improve the chances the arrow will hit, they just won't deal fire damage, oh noes).

Seriously, i'd rather have 4 humanbred than 1 lava warrior, which is about even on resources and *cheaper* (iirc) on gold.

[Nightfall]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Seriously, i'd rather have 4 humanbred than 1 lava warrior, which is about even on resources and *cheaper* (iirc) on gold.

This is the real arguement against lava warriors, it's not that they are terrible, they are just overpriced for what they are capable of. Humanbred are close to the best value infantry in MA, don't overlook them.

[Mardagg]

Originally Posted by Nightfall

This is the real arguement against lava warriors, it's not that they are terrible, they are just overpriced for what they are capable of. Humanbred are close to the best value infantry in MA, don't overlook them.

This nails it.
This is the real question of importance here.
Humanbreds do fare terrible vs certain indies and most human opponents though.Thats why i want to be flexible in resources.
Ok,i have never tried to mix in the expensive Salamanders,that should be working vs most indy provinces at least.But its till looks more like "turtling until the blood economy is running" if you not only skip lavas but also the Heavy Infantries for the early game(concerning sloth 3).

[Nightfall]

Originally Posted by Mardagg

Ok,i have never tried to mix in the expensive Salamanders,that should be working vs most indy provinces at least.But its till looks more like "turtling until the blood economy is running" if you not only skip lavas but also the Heavy Infantries for the early game(concerning sloth 3).

Not really, think of Salamanders as an indy leader with a fire brand and big heat aura, because that is almost exactly how they work. The gold cost for them starts to look very reasonable when you start thinking in those terms.

Note however, you need a demonbred to lead the mixed formation, which is not actually bad thing, since he can bring prison of fire to the party. These groups work fine against indies and other players early.

Of course you don't always need to include salamanders with your humanbred, just when the situation requires it.

[Gregstrom]

[quote=Squirrelloid;766564]Attack damage is all well and good if you can *hit* anything, which given all their attacks are at 10, QUOTE]

10 +3 for berserk + up to 3 for heat +2 against shields. And +2 on the second attack. Not that this makes them good units suddenly, but I think saying they have attack 10 is a misrepresentation.