Trying to improve my MA Abyssia Pretender Design

[P3D]

If you don't want to go with a Blood Fountain (mobility/booster reasons) and you still want a Soul Contract-forger, the warlock is the best option - and also has some dousing bonus.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by P3D

If you don't want to go with a Blood Fountain (mobility/booster reasons) and you still want a Soul Contract-forger, the warlock is the best option - and also has some dousing bonus.

Or you can just, i dunno, use one of your B3F1 warlocks with some blood boosters? You can even empower him to B4 if you need to, because blood is cheap.

Warlock is never a good option for abysia - why spend pretender points for things that are cheap to get with national units?

[Mardagg]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Or you can just, i dunno, use one of your B3F1 warlocks with some blood boosters? You can even empower him to B4 if you need to, because blood is cheap.

Warlock is never a good option for abysia - why spend pretender points for things that are cheap to get with national units?

The whole point of soul contracts is to get them as early as possible,many of them.Since Abysia is so well suited for contracts,i really dont see it as a side-strat here,involving waiting for empowerment/waiting for the right paths on your warlock/waiting for Constr 6 and the boosters/and being lucky or unlucky with old age on your warlocks .
With an awake blood fountain,you can get 1-2 already within the first year..of course you have to blood hunt your capital 1 or 2 times to achieve this,but dont forget that you get a slave income per turn with the fountain on CBM mod,too.
Its the fastest way to get a contract factory going,by far.
Later on,you can then empower/equip a warlock to be able to build contracts,so that your pretender gets better things to do.

Never Heard of sloth with Abysia`s resource-needing troops.
So you are using Humanbreds mainly to expand then for the early game?
What are you doing,if you meet another Human early,that attacks you?
Looks to me very risky here,to put all eggs in one basket.
Humanbreds can very easily be countered and depending on starting position/strong indies it can take some time to get a 2nd or 3rd castle going.
I think you need at least Prod 0 to be more flexible,and if you plan to rush your opponents(for which Lava Warriors are definately very well suited,even though i agree it might be their only good use) you need more.

Furthermore,you need money like crazy early on and for most good Abysia setups,something along O3 G3 and like P1 or P2 is a good choice,simply for the money bonus.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Mardagg

The whole point of soul contracts is to get them as early as possible,many of them.Since Abysia is so well suited for contracts,i really dont see it as a side-strat here,involving waiting for empowerment/waiting for the right paths on your warlock/waiting for Constr 6 and the boosters/and being lucky or unlucky with old age on your warlocks .
With an awake blood fountain,you can get 1-2 already within the first year..of course you have to blood hunt your capital 1 or 2 times to achieve this,but dont forget that you get a slave income per turn with the fountain on CBM mod,too.
Its the fastest way to get a contract factory going,by far.
Later on,you can then empower/equip a warlock to be able to build contracts,so that your pretender gets better things to do.

Never Heard of sloth with Abysia`s resource-needing troops.
So you are using Humanbreds mainly to expand then for the early game?
What are you doing,if you meet another Human early,that attacks you?
Looks to me very risky here,to put all eggs in one basket.
Humanbreds can very easily be countered and depending on starting position/strong indies it can take some time to get a 2nd or 3rd castle going.
I think you need at least Prod 0 to be more flexible,and if you plan to rush your opponents(for which Lava Warriors are definately very well suited,even though i agree it might be their only good use) you need more.

Furthermore,you need money like crazy early on and for most good Abysia setups,something along O3 G3 and like P1 or P2 is a good choice,simply for the money bonus.

Here's the big secret: MA Aby's troops aren't *that* good. They will not save you from a sacred rush. Lava warriors are crap, seriously, and you don't want a bless that's going to be big enough to turn the steaming pile of crap they are into something almost useful (if such a state of affairs is even possible).

Regular abyssian troops, even with P3, are hard to mass, and not much more effective than humanbred tbh.

So yes, you hang your expansion on humanbred. Its not even that hard. P3 is such a waste of points since you aren't going to care after year 1. At all.

Key to surviving year 1:
-Diplomacy. Talk to neighbors. Abysia isn't exactly considered an easy rush target. Make peace.
-Thaumaturgy. If there must be war, get the fire prison spells. Hoses any bless rush.
-Awake rainbow - fast research is fast.
-Bloodhunt early and often (NOT YOUR CAPITAL!). Do some early blood research. Spinedevils are actually pretty nice, for example.

Besides possible low level thaum/blood research, you're going to be bum rushing construction to at least 6 and probably 8. You're going to dump every F gem you see on lanterns when you hit constr 6.

Anyway, by the time you can forge enough blood boosters to get a warlock making contracts, you may be behind *two* contracts. To which i say: whatever. You saved a few *hundred* pretender points not doing it on your pretender.

[Mardagg]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Here's the big secret: MA Aby's troops aren't *that* good. They will not save you from a sacred rush. Lava warriors are crap, seriously, and you don't want a bless that's going to be big enough to turn the steaming pile of crap they are into something almost useful (if such a state of affairs is even possible).

Regular abyssian troops, even with P3, are hard to mass, and not much more effective than humanbred tbh.

So yes, you hang your expansion on humanbred. Its not even that hard. P3 is such a waste of points since you aren't going to care after year 1. At all.

Key to surviving year 1:
-Diplomacy. Talk to neighbors. Abysia isn't exactly considered an easy rush target. Make peace.
-Thaumaturgy. If there must be war, get the fire prison spells. Hoses any bless rush.
-Awake rainbow - fast research is fast.
-Bloodhunt early and often (NOT YOUR CAPITAL!). Do some early blood research. Spinedevils are actually pretty nice, for example.

Besides possible low level thaum/blood research, you're going to be bum rushing construction to at least 6 and probably 8. You're going to dump every F gem you see on lanterns when you hit constr 6.

Anyway, by the time you can forge enough blood boosters to get a warlock making contracts, you may be behind *two* contracts. To which i say: whatever. You saved a few *hundred* pretender points not doing it on your pretender.

Now to my secret:

First and again ,Lava Warriors are good for rushing if you use a decent blessing and mix them with regular troops.Simply for the fact that no one expects you to use them.
I repeat,i use them only when I try to improve Abysia`s early game via pretender design/scales/strats,which is only 1 strategy to play Abysia.
I dont build a Lava Warrior ever,when i am going for Soul Contracts for example.
I did say that several times.
And Lavas die a lot but have huge damage potential and as such can even kill Sc`s easily in early game WITH the right blessing and troop placement.Coupled with Heavy Infantries with Shield and Falling fires from your mages,I would call it a very strong early game force.

Second,P3 only a possibilty for rushing enemies because i want the P for Lava Warriors in my cap,otherwise I prefer P1 or P2 not only for production but also for the extra money.A matter of preference,I almost always take Luck,but with Aby i mostly go the O3,G3,H3,M1,L0 theme and then i often got points left to distribute on P.Points you have left if you dont go the rainbow pretender way
Apart from that,I still doubt going for below P0 is effective with Abysia,because I want to decide if I rely more on Humanbreds or more on Heavy Infantry when the time comes,i.e. in the game,when i see my position and my surrounding indies and meet possible neigbours,and not put the eggs in the Humanbred basket right before the game.Salamanders mixed with Humabreds seems like a good idea though,that did convince me.
First year is extremely important with Abysia and i dont want to be stuck due to a bad start.

Third, your soul contract argument is totally wrong,really.
I got 5+ when you make your first,because i churn out soul contract on like Turn 11,12,14,16,17 and i highly doubt you are able to outfit a F1B6 regular warlock,before Turn 17 to forge the first.
Now,that does mean though,that i got: 1+2+2+3+3+4+5=20 more devils than you.Its a stacking advantage.
Thats a whole devil army i got already for the early game,when you build your first sole devil.
Furthermore,the pretender points aren wasted.
Taking a B6 Blood Fountain,to be empowered to Fire 1 as soon as possible leaves room for very good scales and dominion.In addition you got some research help as well,some Slaves per turn and,if needed,the ability to blood hunt your cap,for a huge headstart in blood slaves.With G3 and some patrolling troops,just set your taxes on 70% for 1 turn and watch the fountain get in 20+ slaves.
Imo,early game advantage multiplies.Getting 20 more slaves on turn 7 is much more helpful than getting say 60 more on turn 50.