Randomocalypse - 5 players, randomly generated nations - Squirrelloid wins!

[Squirrelloid]

well, i didn't even see this in time, obviously, but i didn't look any farther than my third nation and i have 2 interesting choices.

[Lung Drago]

All of my choices are definitely difficult in some way. It either has crappy mages, or crappy priests, or giant infantry, or it's troops apparently don't know what is a sword. I shall have a challenge in this game, that's for sure But I suppose I cannot expect it to hand me a perfect, unconquerable nation on a plate
Teh random nation generator still has a lot of space to improve, since some combinations I have just witnessed are a waste of unit's abbilities or outright illogical for a serious game (having move 3 units is not so great when you have no move 3 commanders, isn't it? Or what real use is having a selection of 2 archer cavalry, when one is clearly superior to the other with only a slight difference in resources cost?). But then again if this worked flawlessly it would be The Single Marvel of Designing Let us make a good use of this situation and if you lose this game, remember it can be blamed on the generator!
Also, I expect every nation will need to have different flag color. If a conflict with another player's national flag should arise with mine, I voluntarily hand over the green slimy flag in favor of a shiny yellow, for example

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by Lung Drago

All of my choices are definitely difficult in some way. It either has crappy mages, or crappy priests, or giant infantry, or it's troops apparently don't know what is a sword. I shall have a challenge in this game, that's for sure But I suppose I cannot expect it to hand me a perfect, unconquerable nation on a plate

I don't think you would have wanted that perfect nation anyway: since diplomacy is allowed your perfect nation might have been facing a 3 or 4 vs 1. So it would have had to have been *really* good to face those odds.

Originally Posted by Lung Drago

Teh random nation generator still has a lot of space to improve, since some combinations I have just witnessed are a waste of unit's abbilities or outright illogical for a serious game (having move 3 units is not so great when you have no move 3 commanders, isn't it? Or what real use is having a selection of 2 archer cavalry, when one is clearly superior to the other with only a slight difference in resources cost?). But then again if this worked flawlessly it would be The Single Marvel of Designing Let us make a good use of this situation and if you lose this game, remember it can be blamed on the generator!

I see what you're saying but some of this doesn't bother me, like having map move 3 units without map move 3 commanders. I kind of like that you've got these pieces and you have to figure out ways to get the best use out of them. For instance, I play MA Van a lot and there you have flying valkyries without any flying commanders. And your stealthy commanders don't have a foot slot so even with a forge bonus forging a magic carpet for each valk-leading commander isn't cheap. You've also got skinshifters with forest survival but none of your commanders have that ability so depending on the map I look for indie mages to help out in leading them over forest terrain.

Originally Posted by Lung Drago

Also, I expect every nation will need to have different flag color. If a conflict with another player's national flag should arise with mine, I voluntarily hand over the green slimy flag in favor of a shiny yellow, for example

Yes, I figured I'd have to do some switching of colors. If anyone has a preferred color let me know and I'll use that. I don't remember if the flag colors always get used in the same order (in which case you will all have the same 5 colors in your nation choices) but there are a total of 14 different colors included in the mod. In any case, I'll definitely avoid you having to use green.

[elmokki]

Originally Posted by Lung Drago

Teh random nation generator still has a lot of space to improve, since some combinations I have just witnessed are a waste of unit's abbilities or outright illogical for a serious game (having move 3 units is not so great when you have no move 3 commanders, isn't it? Or what real use is having a selection of 2 archer cavalry, when one is clearly superior to the other with only a slight difference in resources cost?).

Then again some vanilla nations do have similiar "problems" more or less. I wouldn't be too worried if a nation gets couple of units (out of 6) that they will never recruit. An another issue is if the nation gets a powerful (powerful from the program's viewpoint) troop lineup and all the heavy infantry is utter crap or something.

[Lung Drago]

Originally Posted by elmokki

Then again some vanilla nations do have similiar "problems" more or less. I wouldn't be too worried if a nation gets couple of units (out of 6) that they will never recruit. An another issue is if the nation gets a powerful (powerful from the program's viewpoint) troop lineup and all the heavy infantry is utter crap or something.

I hear you there. I never found a use for the bakemono shaman of MA Shinuyama for example

What type of diplomacy are we talking here, anyway? All treaties are binding?

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Lung Drago

What type of diplomacy are we talking here, anyway? All treaties are binding?

What?

Boring.

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by Lung Drago

Also, I expect every nation will need to have different flag color. If a conflict with another player's national flag should arise with mine, I voluntarily hand over the green slimy flag in favor of a shiny yellow, for example

Since Yelloea had already claimed yellow I switched you from green to purple. Korwin, I switched you to white since P3D already had red. Colors ok with both of you?

Originally Posted by Jiggymike

I really like two of my choices but I thiiiink I'm going to go with Blue. Do me a little favor and give them a better name than Bluthan, thanks. Hope I'm not making a mistake by turning down those hydras!

How about something from Tolkein? I think "Moria, The Pond of the Slain" sounds suitably ominous for the Witch Kings.

Originally Posted by Lung Drago

What type of diplomacy are we talking here, anyway? All treaties are binding?

Other than stating whether a game has diplomacy or not, I never make any rules regarding this. My experience has been that agreements are honored the vast majority of the time but if the game is on the line people may feel the stakes are high enough to violate a NAP. Aside from consequences in the current game, the main drawback to violating agreements is that the player may be viewed as an unreliable person to do business with in future games. Really depends on the person and the situation how they react. So, it's completely up to you how you want to approach diplo.

[Korwin]

...What should I choose...

Harder than I thought...

[Squirrelloid]

I'd like Yellowea of mine.

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

well, i didn't even see this in time, obviously, but i didn't look any farther than my third nation and i have 2 interesting choices.

Yeah, I realized you hadn't had time to respond but didn't want to leave anyone out when I sent the nations and I figured you could do exactly what you did in order to limit your choices. Though I have to admit if I took that approach I would be very tempted to check the other nations after I chose, just to see what I might have missed out on...

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

I've been helping Elmokki with some of the balance formulae, so I can tell you that its kind of rough and unit synergies won't necessarily get factored in very well. So there is probably significant slop. Choosing 1 of 5 nations should let people account for this i would hope.

One area of synergies that comes to mind is hot/cold nations. You are unlikely to get an entire troop/commander lineup that is immune to an element. OTOH I find you frequently get better magic diversity than most of the base game nations since you don't have the common pattern of a nation's weaker mages having a subset of the stronger mage's paths. Now some of those magic paths will be low level but it's enough to site search and forge some basic items.

Originally Posted by Korwin

...What should I choose...

Harder than I thought...

I think this is a good sign. When I quickly looked over the nations before sending them out I didn't have any WTF reactions like when I first saw Hinnom. I'm not at all claiming there's perfect balance but I don't think any of these nations will warrant a dogpile just based on their lineup.