Polish OOB 5.5

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #1 January 15th, 2012, 08:40 PM

Be careful in regards to the Malaysian version those tanks were ordered to the customer specifications as was posted with numerous refs in a Patch Post. That's why it was entered in their OOB as it is. You have to be careful about "same" units when discussing export units or other variations. By example M-60 Series M-60 TTS, M-60 2000, M-60 SABRE and M-60T off the top of my head all different in weapons, armor protection, sensors and general capabilities to varying degrees.
MBT Thread Page #9 Posts #84 & #89 M.5 I believe there was some follow up on the PT-91 in the Patch Post as well but I leave that to you to check if you want.
And let's not even talk about the LEO or ABRAMS variations. The UK, FRANCE, ITALY and ISRAEL (And a couple of others.) did it right and kept their own for the most part thank God for that in game terms! Just trying to help as others have done for me here as well, Just read my first posts in the MRAP Thread.

Regards,
Pat

Pibwl · #2 January 15th, 2012, 09:16 PM

That's why I'm basing upon a Polish article claiming, that basic protection of Malaysian tanks remained the same, despite works carried by Bumar upon a composite armour. ERA was probably only improved in decreasing weight (and possibly increasing efficiency). Thanks to the customer specifications it received better FCS, gun and stabilizer, engine and transmission, ammo, and several other improvements. Of course, the information on armour may be challenged. Main point of interest in these thread are Polish PT-91s anyway.

Michal

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #3 January 16th, 2012, 01:49 AM

I bought up the Malaysian issue partly because Poland is about to or is just starting to upgrade their T-72M1 and PT-91 tanks. The work will not be done however by BUMAR who did not get the bid but, WZM. The first 20 of 40 PT-91 and 10 of 20 T-72M1 upgraded units are to be operational by NOV. 2012. I have been following developments and have other refs ready. Was thinking the Malaysian model as in the game might meet the new standard after rechecking the values again for verification. What are your first impressions of that thought? I will further research this that's just me and it keeps the research and conclusions independent this will include trying to identify ERA types for determination of where it falls on old vs. new scale. This is a big deal for WZM as they are primarily known for their work with APCs. It should be noted from their website they have ties with RHEINMETALL this could be the key to the tank work as well considering again WZM primary manufacturing role to this point and the timeline involved. Some might need to use your translator program for ref #2.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/decem...s_1912116.html
http://www.wzm.pl/go.live.php/PL-H36...ow-t72-m1.html

Currently not known what will be done, as much as it will and what can be done i.e. Malaysia's PT-91 PANDADUR.

Regards,
Pat

Pibwl · #4 January 16th, 2012, 05:31 AM

I haven't heard about upgrade plans yet - there's no such information even on Polish MoD page News section, and no talk on it on Polish forums. But, according to a quoted WZM page, 20 T-72 tanks aren't going to be modernized, just overhauled (remont konserwacyjny - "conserving overhaul") (BTW, WZM first of all was repair plant - only in recent years they got to production of vehicles).

Anyway, it doesn't change my conclusions much, that there are no upgraded tanks by now, and the earliest date will be 2013 - IF the tender is assigned. Life showed, that many announced plans of modernization or buying new equipment for the Polish Army were postponed or abandoned eventually... As for now, we doesn't know details of upgrade. I bet, that they won't touch armour anyway, and focus on FC-gun issue rather.

Regards
Michal

Marcello · #5 January 16th, 2012, 06:49 AM

Modernization of T-72M1 basic armor is likely to be difficult. The glacis can probably be upgraded without excessive problem, by undoing the welds and replacing the inner layers, but the turret front has the composites cast in according to the sources. Therefore you would have to machine away a significant chunk of the armor. More costly/troublesome than it is probably worth.
The T-72B/S is much more upgrade friendly.

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #6 January 16th, 2012, 08:52 PM

Pibwl,
As noted this will bear further watching then. I'll put this off until the 2012/2013 campaign then and see what comes of it. In the mean time in the spirit of cooperation here's all I have on the topic. Note the first three use the words "modernization" and "upgrade" last two cover the ERA issue maybe not as bad as you think but the armor itself seems more the issue on the surface of it. That's why I'm still leaning towards the PT-91M standard if these get upgraded as indiciated. Also Marcello is correct it would take a complete RESET to improve the armor really for ethier of these tanks and it can be done look at the LEO major overhauls done to date by the RESET programs used.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/decem...s_1912116.html
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rope&Itemid=57
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...2m1-pt-91-mbts
http://www.army-technology.com/proje...ainbattletank/
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/pt91_twardy.htm

And who says I can't play nice with others!?!

I'll be

this as it develops.

Regards,
Pat