Mine balance suggestion

[Wardad]

Actually, two allies can each put up 100 mines.
If I was told correctly the invader would need to sweep 200. So you could still face more than 100 mines without cheating.

[jimbob]

Mine fields should have an upper limit to how many mines can be in them... if you wallpaper space with mines then they'll be detected by incoming ships, and so won't really be a mine field in the common sense of the term (undetected, a surprise, etc)

That said, each sector is a pretty big chunk of realestate and so I think the max # of mines/sector could realistically reach 1,000 or even 10,000. I think MM was more concerned about people barricading themselves in during the early game, and so the later game (with huge minesweepers) suffered.

My solution would be to increase the (modable) limit to 1000 per sector, but then make the mines far more expensive to build to reduce the number manufactured in the early game. Or reduce the number launched per turn (per kT of launcher space) to make it harder to put many hundreds into space in a short period of time.

just my .02$

[ August 07, 2002, 19:14: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[geoschmo]

The whole minefield issue is one that is just impossible to discuss without getting emotional. That is the reason it is so nasty. Both sides have completely rational logical arguments as to how it should be, and the rules while appearing to be on one side of the issue, had a "loophole".

If you believe it to be cheating it's nearly impossible for you to see it any other way. And in your eyes anyone doing it is a cheater.

If you feel that the limit is artificial and gamey then you can't understand why anyone would object to someone using it, and you are suprised when people aren't prepared for it.

These two opinions are irreconcilable. Perception is reality, and whatever your perception is, that what determines the reality for you. This dichotomy is what prompted Malfador to close the loophole, not a decision based on what was or wasn't correct or even what his own original intention was.

The fact was whatever you want to call it, a bug, a feature, a loophole, a technique, a cheat, it's going away. The issue is resolved, and everyone can be happy on both sides.

If you like the 100 mines per sector limit you can now rest assured that it will not be exceeded. You can send your fleet of ships with exactly 100 mines worth of sweepers in it anywhere you want and will run no risk of suprise.

If you don't like the 100 per sector mine limit, you can find others out their like you, and there are many like you, and modify the settings.txt files to allow more mines per sector and more mines per game.

Everybody is happy, and no more need for labels.

Geoschmo

[ August 07, 2002, 19:26: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[dumbluck]

You know, I get the impression that Geo is just a liiiiiittle bit tired of the whole "mine bug exploit" arguements....

[ August 08, 2002, 11:00: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[Growltigga]

possibly a stupid question I know but can you not change the limit on mines per sector in the setting.txt file on SEIVG?

I thought I saw it there Last night..

[dumbluck]

GT: Yes, it's in there somewhere. (As Geo pointed out)

Mines are gross and disgusting, and the only way to balance them is to remove them from the game.

</rant off>

Seriously, how can such a cheap technology

- Infallibly tell friend from foe

- Defeat the most advanced sensors and scanners in the universe.

- Somehow be able to move faster then any warships (static mines couldn't possibly cover the amount of space in one sector).

- Attack all ships simultaneously so that none of them have the chance to, say, notice the explosions and change course.

Obviously, in a game with fantasy technology, you can build in whatever technical assumptions you like. But it seems a shame that most of the other parts of the tech-tree involve time and effort to get high-powered resullts, while mines have all this built in at the first level. But what I really don't like is their effect on the early game, where they essentially paralyse all attempts at warfare, and allow for evil tricks like laying mines in allies territoty. I'm pretty sure people would notice that sort of thing.

Personally, I'd like mines to be completely re-done. There should be a probability of being hit depending on minefiled density. Sweeping should take time (that's the only way to do it safely), and again should be based on probability. Mines should be detectable. Then better mines could be harder to detect, harder to sweep, etc. Given that's a big programming job for a peripheral technology, let's go back to my original proposal - get rid of them.

Mark