newest beta patch?

[LGM]

I am glad to hear that Organic armor will no longer acrue repair points before they are damaged. I have suspected that they did this as organic armor seemed to go away faster at warp-point battles (no approach time to accrue regen points).

I also like taking the AS/Virus combination away as there was no real good counter to that combination, except making sure you always have first fire.

Now, if only the Talisman were toned down a bit. Automatic Hit at range 8 (Range 14 for Large Weapon Platforms and Massive Base Mouints) is rather hard to overcome.

[Gandalph]

I can't believe some of the things I am reading in here.

I have to agree to some extent with Q. I spent alot of time putting together a mod for 1.67, which no one played incidently, that the 1.78 patch changed considerably and was frustrated at the amount of work necessary to put together a mod that gets changed with the next patch. IT IS ALOT OF WORK!

As to the people crying about "UBER" whatever, IMHO it is overcoming adversity and defying odds that makes this great game, well, great! I only play PBW now and when I lose, and you can bet that I do, I look at my strategies and the strategies of the opponent who took me out to see how I can learn.

With that said, I do think the change to the AS is unwelcome and unwarranted.

EDIT - Well if that doesn't lower my rating, nothing will!

[ October 12, 2002, 06:07: Message edited by: Gandalph ]

[Stone Mill]

I am playing in 2 games now where the primary reason I was instrumental in beating the Talisman was through the massive deployment of organic armor.

In the other it is the AS.

This patch reduces the edge of some "inconsistencies" (i.e. organic armor, AS), but in the wake of that move, the Talsiman and PPB become, in effect, even more powerful.

The massively glaring inconsisitency and unbalance of PPB remains unaddressed. That is the obvious gripe of a significant portion of SEIV game players.

How did "fixing" organic armor rank higher than levelling out PPBs?

This is a more than a patch... it does instigate an indirect upset to game balance.

[dumbluck]

Originally posted by [K126]Mephisto:
2. Changed - "Crew ConVersion" damage type will only work against ships regardless of the target type.

What about Bases??? Shouldn't they be vulnerable, too? And maybe even fighters???

EDIT: Well, maybe not fighters. How would you board a fighter???

3. Fixed - "Crew ConVersion" damage type will fail against a ship with a Master Computer (regardless if that component is damaged or not).

I agree this needed done, but now there is now counter or disadvantage for using the MC (other than the high cost, which can be overcome...). Perhaps if the MC did NOT gain from experience? Then it would be a good counter for the AS, but would be inferior to vessels with a normal weapon load...

Or perhaps a MC equiped vessel would have a lower max experience level. For example, if you can train crews to do something (Ship/Fleet training facilities, default max 20%), surely you can program your MC with the same training. However, from 20% to 50% is just experience learned in the field, and perhaps the MC wouldn't be able to expand it's own programming....

7. Fixed - Organic Armor was pre-regenerating itself before damage occurred in combat.

. . .

5. Fixed - Ships with regnerating armor will regnerate all of their armor at the end of combat.

This I like. One question, though: Will a ship with no undamaged OA still repair it all after combat?

This also has one downside. In turn based games, my OA equiped ships enter combat against yours, kill a few ships, then combat ends and all damaged armor regens. Then my fleet expends another movement point to enter combat again. Your ships are still partially damaged (unless you have OA too! ), whilst mine have had some free repair done in the space of a few days....

3. Fixed - The result of a Communication interception intelligence project will be displayed with arrows in the log window.

Huh?

6. Fixed - During a Deconstruct & Analyze, you would sometimes receive duplicate techs if a component and the vehicle size were new to you.

This also is excellent, and needed to be done.

[ October 12, 2002, 07:31: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[Phoenix-D]

"2. Changed - "Crew ConVersion" damage type will only work against ships regardless of the target type."

Um, this is just franky ridiclous. If you want the AS to only affect ships in SE4..only let it target ships. There is no reason to cripple modding like that.

Phoenix-D

[Q]

Well I am glad that I am not completely alone with my opinion!
My objection to the changes MM makes since the Last patch is a general one:
MM starts to remove things from SE which in my opinion is absurd:
In patch 1.78 he removed the ability of "damage engines only, skips shields", now he plans to remove the ability of the AS to work against ships/bases with destroyed master computer and the possibility to target units (something I never used).
I understand people who think that this might be more realistic or balanced, however don't you understand that this also reduces the complexity and variety of the game?
I strongly ask all people with some influence on MM: ask him to make such changes only as an option or in a way that can be modded back and not in an irreversible way.

Thank you for your understanding.

[ October 12, 2002, 09:08: Message edited by: Q ]

[dumbluck]

I agree with Q. It is good that he is adressing issues, but bad that he is addressing them by reducing the moddable features....