AI DEAD MATCH CONTEST!

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by Cheeze:
I realize that the EEE are already doing well, but I wonder if they'd do even BETTER if the matches weren't 1 on 1. Their ultra-friendliness might prove even more dangerous in those situations. I've been in games where I've wanted to war with the EEE, but I had more immediate enemies, and those EEE are so darn friendly and so darn STRONG!!!

Yep, as I wrote in the first post, the peaceful races will have some disadvantage with this system to run the contest... But run a large contest with games including more than 2 races, would be a nightmare.

I have an observation about the EEE: they have lots of fleets with a few ships. Think it's ok fighting against others AIs, but against humans doesn't look so good.

[ November 30, 2002, 14:54: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

[Master Belisarius]

Pyrochette vs EEE.
The Pyrochette has a better start than the EEE. But the EEE started to attack the Pyrochette planets with several small fleets, and then, changed the game to their side.
The Pyrochette had several fleets with the "do nothing" syndrome, and then at the turn 365, although think still they could fight and try to win, believe the EEE will win.
Turn 458.
The Pyrochette were able to control the riots, and start to re-construct their empire. Has started an offensive into the EEE territory, and are near in the numbers.
Turn 482.
Although the EEE control most the galaxy, anyway they're loosing by points. A loong and very interesting game.
Turn 500 and the Pyrochette won by points...
Here the link (a heavy file to download!): Pyrochette_vs_EEE_S1.zip

Want to comment a few things:
1) The EEE never used troop transports. Think this is a disadvantage.
2) The Pyrochette won, only because:
a) Were good keeping their Last systems and their planets without riots most the time.
b) Had a good management of the production, to surpass the EEE production, even with less systems.
3) Interesting, but the Pyrochette never won a fast game: Two times at the turn 350, one time at the turn 450 and two times at the turn 500.
4) Sometimes the hardcoded AI behavior is very frustrating... The "do nothing" bug in the fleets or the lack of skills that has the Population Minister to send population to planets without people, or the lack of skills to decide the right targets, can change the course of any game.

Finally, I'm starting to feel myself ashamed and afraid: my two AI's had won all the games... and think that somebody could start to believe that I'm doing something to help them to win...
If somebody feel something like that, I have not problems if this person want to run the games where my AIs are involved.

[ November 30, 2002, 22:54: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

[Rexxx]

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:

I have an observation about the EEE: they have lots of fleets with a few ships. Think it's ok fighting against others AIs, but against humans doesn't look so good.

MB, you're right. The EEE prefer more but smaller fleets to a few (very) large ones. Large fleets are very powerful but you can only attack one or two planets - sometimes even in the same system - at the same time. Small fleets are less powerful but you can attack much more planets (if the AI has a good day even in different systems ).
In a "normal" game you frequently face more than one enemy, more than one or two enemy fleets. IMO the best answer to these multiple threats are more but smaller fleets.
I agree that larger ones are more dangerous to a human player. However, normally your AI don't face the human opponent at first, the probability of running into a hostile AI is much higher. You're also right, that - in a normal game - this "more fleets strategy" works quite well against other AIs, especially those with large fleets. Thus, it raises the chances to reach midgame at all and not being killed early. In midgame (it means for me being able to colonize rock planets) the EEE I'm currently testing begin to build up larger fleets in their desperate attempt to be a worthy opponent for the human player.

The situation in this contest is quite different. There is only one enemy to be crushed and for this purpose large and powerful fleets are much better. I'm surprised that the EEE survived so long against your Pyrochette.

This fleet thingie is like the quadrature of the circle, there is no perfect answer. The only solution I can imagine would be the ability to control the structure of our AI fleets, that would boost the qualities of any modded AI and make them a much better opponent.
As it is now I like the fact that there are different approaches regarding those "fleet strategies", it protects the game from getting too easy and predictable for the human player. What seems to work well against the EEE might be useless against the Pyrochette. Bad luck... Reload or start a new game...

EDIT:
Hi MB: Just read your Last post. Bad news, very bad news .
Controlling most of the galaxy and losing at the same time is hard, very hard indeed.
Looking forward to checking the savegames. I guess the EEE - stubborn as they are - build unit upon unit, not realizing that these efforts don't increase the score.

[ November 30, 2002, 22:53: Message edited by: Rexxx ]

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by Rexxx:
This fleet thingie is like the quadrature of the circle, there is no perfect answer. The only solution I can imagine would be the ability to control the structure of our AI fleets, that would boost the qualities of any modded AI and make them a much better opponent.
[/QB]

Good points, and agree 100% with you... Probably, I'll change a bit, the fleets.txt for the next Pyrochette/Aquilaeian Versions.

[Rexxx]

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
Finally, I'm starting to feel myself ashamed and afraid: my two AI's had won all the games... and think that somebody could start to believe that I'm doing something to help them to win...
If somebody feel something like that, I have not problems if this person want to run the games where my AIs are involved.

Don't be silly.
Sorry for this bluntness but if someone doubts your fairness I would say that this person has a serious problem but not you.

[Master Belisarius]

Toron vs Vikings.
The Toron played a very good game and defeated the Vikings. The training facilities for ships/fleets plus the AS, good ship designes and fast expansion, are good arguments to win.
The Vikings are great, of course, with good aggressiveness/defensiveness, and very good ship designes, but were unable to stop the Toron at any momment.
Here the link: Vikings_vs_Toron_S1.zip

[Master Belisarius]

Klingons vs Aquilaeian.
The Klingons expanded a LOT more fast than the Aquilaeian, then, had the possiblity to kill the Aquilaeian very fast!
The Aquilaeian only control 3 systems now (turn 224), but the Klingons started to had the problem with lack of minesweepers and lack of resources... then, don't know if they could finish the Aquilaeian.
Turn 271.
The Aquilaeian killed a big Klingon's fleet into their homeworld system, and has started to rebuild their empire... The Klingons has now resources, but are building only attack ships (no minesweepers).
Turn 342.
The Aquilaeian only control an small part of the galaxy, but now are in the first possition for a short margin.
Turn 350.
The Klingons must face a LOT of riots... their ships are destroyed by lack of maintencance. Really they were very very close to destroy the Aquilaeian, but are paying a high price for the problems with lack of mine-sweepers and lack of resources.
Turn 462.
The Klingons only control a few systems, and nothing can change their fate...
The Aquilaeian killed the Last Klingon's planet, at the turn 498.
Here the link: Klingons_vs_Aquilaeian_S2.zip

[ December 01, 2002, 19:23: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]