Blood SCs

[Soyweiser]

A nerf? I thought it was pretty op. Way easier to make communions. Esp for b2+ nations.

[jotwebe]

On the whole it CBM helps blood sabbaths a lot. It's true that B1 mages provided by high PD can now mess things up, but if you place your dudes so that they won't have access to slave, there's nothing they can do after having cast sabbath master. And in vanilla, the slave costs for a big sabbath would be pretty huge.

Oh, and: Sabbath + Reinvigoration = Profit.

[Fantomen]

So it's a "huge nerf", that is also somehow overpowered?

[Redeyes]

Originally Posted by Fantomen

So it's a "huge nerf", that is also somehow overpowered?

Apparently the risk of Mictlan b1 priests casting both sabbatah slave and master is one of the worst things to ever to happen to the game?

I don't really understand what's being argued because the idea that some mages being able of entering communions at a much higher fatigue cost than equivalent mages with astral somehow has a negative impact on the game is pretty daft.

[Bat/man]

I don't really understand what's being argued because the idea that some mages being able of entering communions at a much higher fatigue cost than equivalent mages with astral somehow has a negative impact on the game is pretty daft.

In many cases, your fatigue level will not matter. for example:

B3: Slave: Whatever
B3: slave: Whatever
B3 slave: Whatever
b3 Master; Reinvig


Another Case:

bx master: tiny spell, tiny spell tiny spell
Bx: Slave: Whatever......
Bx: Slave: Whatever
.
.
.
.
B3: Master : tiny spell, Reinvigorate; Reinvigorate; Reinvigorate
b3 Master: Big spell, big spell, big spell..

This kind of communion depends a lot on timing.

First round: All slaves cases Slave or master
Second Round: First master casts an inconsequential spell, to prevent slaves from casting. Last master casts big fatigue spell
Third round slaves regen to under 200. Second master casts reinvig - pegging the slaves to 200. But then the reinvig drops them down to some reasonably exhausted state. Third master casts a big fatigue spell again - begging them back to 200.

So essentially the cyle becomes: Big spell; recover,.; reinvig. Big spell, recover, reinvig. Continue through five rounds of script.

And you don't have to use reinvig either. The it can be any spell that reduces fatigue.

It relies on the mechanism that it doesn't matter how much fatigue you have 0 or 199. Any spell then cast is just going to react exactly the same. Peg you to 200.

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by Bat/man

B3: Master : tiny spell, Reinvigorate; Reinvigorate; Reinvigorate
b3 Master: Big spell, big spell, big spell..

iirc this doesnt work. Masters don't cast reinvig if they have no fatigue.

You need this:
B3 Master: spell, spell, Big spell, spells
B3 Master: spell, Big Spell, Reinvigorate, spells
B3 Master: Big spell, Reinvigorate, other spells
B3: Master : Reinvigorate, other spells

[Bat/man]

Originally Posted by Fantomen

So it's a "huge nerf", that is also somehow overpowered?

Look, call it what you will. I don't think you've disputed any one of the effects that I pointed out.. I think its a nerf to pure blood nations, due to the increase in unreliability. What you think it is will depend on the kind of nations you like to play.



A large boost to cross-path blood mages is a nerf to everyone else.
Making communions essentially free is a nerf to non blood nations.
Decreasing the reliability of understood game mechanics is just a general nerf.

[Bat/man]

Originally Posted by Fantomen

So it's a "huge nerf", that is also somehow overpowered?

Look, call it what you will. I don't think you've disputed any one of the effects that I pointed out.. I think its a nerf to pure blood nations, due to the increase in unreliability. What you think it is will depend on the kind of nations you like to play.



A large boost to cross-path blood mages is a nerf to everyone else.
Making communions essentially free is a nerf to non blood nations.
Decreasing the reliability of understood game mechanics is just a general nerf.

[Fantomen]

Fatigue applied to slaves from spells cast by the master don't "cap" at 200, any spill over fatigue does damage to the slaves. Reinvigoration works because it removes enough fatigue that the slaves usually don't reach 200 and start taking damage. But if they are at 199 they're gonna take quite some damage from a big spell.

What "other fatigue reducing spells" are you talking about? There is only earthpower and relief, none of which are viable for this.

But anyhow, in your example, if your "first master" casts a tiny spell each turn to stop slaves from casting. Then how is the slaves going to accidentally cast sabbath master? Because, you know, they wont cast **** either way. So in that example the change to sabbath spells makes 0 difference, except the very good difference that you don't have to micro slaves for the slaves/can place them where you want.

[Kungfoo]

Bat/man: I don't see how, in any of your examples, you've described something that's different with bloodless communions from what you'd be doing with slaves.