Blood SCs

[krpeters]

Originally Posted by Immaculate

If the caster doesn't deem the threat worthy of using gems, then they'll just cast sabbath master, sabbath slave without using slaves.

In CBM, master/slave doesn't cost any slaves. In vanilla, *every* blood spell costs slaves. So my guess is that in vanilla the blood mage will keep casting "summon imp" as it feels it has to cast something and sees this as the least worst choice.

[JonBrave]

Originally Posted by krpeters

In CBM, master/slave doesn't cost any slaves.

Thanks, didn't realise that change (am playing my first CBM, SP). That makes a difference. On that topic, in CBM what is the deep significance of sabbath master/slave being Fatigue "99-" instead of "100-", please?

[rdonj]

The fatigue cost determines the gem cost of a spell. Each 100 requires an additional gem. So 99 is high enough that the casting cost difference is irrelevant, but allows you to cast without needing a slave.

[Bat/man]

That 99 fatigue cost seems like an improvement but it is really a terrible nerf.

It means that the AI can (and now - will) cast slave and master and fatigue himself out of a fight.

this can happen if
a). the blood mage has few spells researched.
b). No spells in range.

So, this makes scripting more difficult

It gets worse.

Even though the spell theoretically consumes no slaves - intermittently, it will in fact consume a slave.

This makes slave management more difficult.

Finally, it truly bolluxes up communions, reverse communions, and linebacker communions (qv).

if one of the mages that you intend to be communion slaves casts master it can prevent all slaves following it to *not* cast a spell. (remember all slaves cease casting upon the first cast by a master).

So, all in all, that 1% fatigue change is pretty huge change.

[Fantomen]

Originally Posted by Bat/man

That 99 fatigue cost seems like an improvement but it is really a terrible nerf.

It means that the AI can (and now - will) cast slave and master and fatigue himself out of a fight.

this can happen if
a). the blood mage has few spells researched.
b). No spells in range.

So, this makes scripting more difficult

It gets worse.

Even though the spell theoretically consumes no slaves - intermittently, it will in fact consume a slave.

This makes slave management more difficult.

Finally, it truly bolluxes up communions, reverse communions, and linebacker communions (qv).

if one of the mages that you intend to be communion slaves casts master it can prevent all slaves following it to *not* cast a spell. (remember all slaves cease casting upon the first cast by a master).

So, all in all, that 1% fatigue change is pretty huge change.

If you think it's a nerf you just don't understand how to use it. It is, in fact, a huge boost. All the problems you've listed are either imaginary, insignificant or easy to avoid.

[Bat/man]

Ok. Splain it to me.

The advantage is you don't have to carry blood slaves around.
Usually this takes a scout. You also save 1 blood slave per participant. Blood economies can generate huge numbers of blood slaves - economy isn't usually an issue. You can get a little more creative with placement.

You are a tiny bit less susceptible to first turn earthquakes, rain of stones, etc; (since you can communion with fewer slaves).

You can sometimes form communions you wouldn't have been able to.

On the flip side of the coin you get *much* more controllable, and predictable use of blood slaves when it costs 100.

And you are less susceptible to scripting errors.

[Kungfoo]

Explain how you get "*much* more controllable, and predictable use of blood slaves" at 100- fatigue instead of 99- fatigue.

[Fantomen]

Originally Posted by Bat/man

Ok. Splain it to me.

The advantage is you don't have to carry blood slaves around.
Usually this takes a scout. You also save 1 blood slave per participant. Blood economies can generate huge numbers of blood slaves - economy isn't usually an issue. You can get a little more creative with placement.

You are a tiny bit less susceptible to first turn earthquakes, rain of stones, etc; (since you can communion with fewer slaves).

You can sometimes form communions you wouldn't have been able to.

On the flip side of the coin you get *much* more controllable, and predictable use of blood slaves when it costs 100.

And you are less susceptible to scripting errors.

Blood economy isn't the issue, blood logistics are. Lets say you have a communion of 16 mages, that's 16 slaves just to start up the communion each battle, gets pretty huge after a few battles, and what a ****ing chore to uphold a supply line all the way into enemy territory and painstakingly give every damn slave one(1) blood slave each turn. AND any clever opponent can **** you up by remote attacks to burn that slave in the magic phase so your entire communion falls apart in the real battle because there'll be no slaves to start it.

Jeez, all you have to do to prevent the slaves from doing something stupid is either A: place them out of range from the blood slaves, or B: have a master with with a unit ID so he's placed over the slaves. That's absolutely trivial compared to the crazy micro before.

The options opened up however, are anything but trivial. You can now:
Make mixed communions without having a blood economy, to start with. Using blood mages as linebackers with astral masters, for non blood nations. Teleporting and cloud trapezing communions deep striking enemy territory without having to send scouts across the whole map in advance, which is pretty big if the war starts suddenly. Using hundreds of blood slaves for something else than fueling large communions. Scripting blood hunters for communioned defence without having to manually put back a slave after pooling.

And the list goes on, but the hugest one is probably: Actually USE blood communions as a major part of your strategy without having to be totally ****ing anal.

Just pick a single one of the advantages and it still beats your imaginary "nerf"