IDF OOB project.

[gingertanker]

APCs

Unit 081 M3 Halftrack This should be around untill the early 1990s. I Saw these in a reserve unit with my own very young but at that time still sharp eyes when I was 3 or 4...So 1992~ they were still around. Suggest new end date of 1993.

Unit 572 M3 Halftrack Same goes for this.

Unit 083 Bardelass This is the vanilla M113, and still exists(sadly enough for our brave mech infantry) to this day in some standing and reserve units. End date should be 2020 really, we have so many we will never rid of them.

Unit 097 Namer MICV RWS This is still not in service AFAIK, and I don't see it happening anytime soon. Specifically the 30mm and Spike...This just is not how IDF infantry like to roll, they would need serious boosts to the ordnance platoons in their battalions as well as a major increase in time spent training with AFVs(they hate AFVs). For the foreseeable future IDF infantry will have nothing larger than the 12.7mm/40mm AGL on its RWS...



That is it for today. See you soon

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I just have a quick thought here. I tried to get the 60mm Mortars in while researchimg the Turkish M60T which led me back to the MERKAVA. Do we delete tank rounds for what we know is a real life issue (To make room for the 60mm ammo.) when we are game limited to the weapons slots we have availble? I seem to remember when this was brought up I was asked whether we should give up a MG for the 60mm mortar. My answer then was basically keep the MG as it was a better direct support weapon against infantry (I do remember being "coached" to think about it, must have been that Submariner thing? ). We might need a game comprimise here as the 60mm mortar cuts across the whole MERKAVA spectrum pretty much.
Ammo loads have always been an issue to some degree depending on sources and have been known to cross the "PITA Line" here at times.

Great Work!

Regards,
Pat

[gingertanker]

Pat,

I really think the 60mm is best left alone. I have said before, there is no way to model the Merks weapons fully in game. you would need 7 weapon slots:
1)main gun
2)7.62 coax
3)12.7 upper coax
4)TC 7.62mg
5)Loader 7.62 mg(aside from mk4)
6)60mm mortar
7)WP smoke dischargers used as a weapon(major thing against close range inf)

It just cant be done. Worse still, the 60mm is not just on merks! Some magachs and some Tirans(!) had them as well, mounted externally.

The truth is the 60mm is not meant to be used as a direct fire LOS weapon. it is meant exactly for when you don't want to be in LOS. It cant be done well in game.

As far as ammo loads, there is no issue, the ammo loads i specified are accurate to tanks carrying the 60mm and its ammo.


Honestly I think the solution for the merkava series should be:
Slot 1: Main gun
Slot 2: 7.62mm CMG
Slot 3: 12.7mm CMG
Slot 4: 2X7.62 AAMG/7.62mm AAMG

And what do you know, thats the way it is with most of them...If anything I might have an issue with older tanks having 12.7mm AAMGs on them, as the IDF usually(read always) preferred the 0.3 for both commander and loader.

Amit.

[gingertanker]

Units 100 and 101 Chaparral
*Name should possibly be changed to "Drakon", the IDF name for the SP-Chaparral
*Dates should definitely be shortened.The only source I have for this is hebrew wiki(I know, I know), which states:

"In April 2003 the 3 Drakon batteries of the 946th Battalion were shut down."

A quick Hebrew search found some backup for this, a few forum posts and CVs from people saying they served in that battalion until it was shut down and the vehicles sold to a south american client.

I suggest new end date 2003.

Units 105 Hovet and 106 Machbet In 2006 the final Vulcan units were shut down, I remember this from my time in service. This is also mentioned in the Hebrew wikipedia and reliable Israeli military forums.
I realize this will make a hole in the Israeli OOB, but I am just giving you the info


Unit 116 Sherman Dozer If we are not going to do a M51 Dozer I think this should at least be extended to match the life span of the M51.

Unit 117 Shot Dozer Again, assuming we are not going to do a version for the newer shots, should have end date 2002.

Unit 118 Tiran Dozer should match life span of Tiran 5.

Unit 119 M728i CEVI dont think this was ever in Israeli service, is there a source that says it was?

[DRG]

Originally Posted by gingertanker

Unit 119 M728i CEVI dont think this was ever in Israeli service, is there a source that says it was?

It's been in the files for at least 10 years and it has it's own unique Icon so all I can tell you is someone thought it was but IDK who

Don

[iln82]

Originally Posted by gingertanker

Unit 116 Sherman Dozer If we are not going to do a M51 Dozer I think this should at least be extended to match the life span of the M51.

But was there ever one???
No argument here just asking out of curiosity, because I've only seen dozers mounted on 105 mm Shermans.

[gingertanker]

But was there ever one???
No argument here just asking out of curiosity, because I've only seen dozers mounted on 105 mm Shermans.

I have only seen the full dozer blade mounted on a M4 with a105mm short barrel howitzer. However AFAIK the dozer blade could be fitted to any sherman.

Also Don,

That is interesting. There is no specimen in Latrun...I have never seen a picture of one in IDF markings...And I do not recall ever hearing from anyone that they used them. In 1982 the IDF used 203mm SPA pieces to blast away buildings...

I just don't know. The only thing I can do is ask some old tankers if they ever saw one. I guess keep it for now.
Amit

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

IDF UNIT 119 looks like it can go. The M728 CEV was born into the ARMY in 1965 and died in the GUARD in 2000. There is no evidence to support that this tank was ever exported. These sites usually show that info and a couple reference Hunnicutts book on the Patton series of tanks with for many is considered the "Bible" on the subject. The ARMY recieved about 291 of them until production ceased ~1972.
http://patton-mania.com/IDF_Pattons/idf_pattons.html
http://patton-mania.com/M60_Patton/m60_patton.html#M728 CEV
http://www.military-today.com/engineering/m728_cev.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...round/m728.htm
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/eng/M728.html
http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/cevm728.html

Regards,
Pat

[gingertanker]

The Puma:

Unit 120 Puma Dozer,Unit 130 Puma Nochri,Unit 422 Puma

This is the main ARV for the IDF since the early 1990s. All Pumas are capable of carrying troops.

Is there a way for the Dozer and Nochri versions to safely carry the troops and retain their mine clearing capability? If so carry capacity should be 8, and not 13(The skeleton crew for this thing is 3, the rest of the machine guns are manned by the sappers riding in it.

also we might want to add the CARPET as a weapon. Sure it wont clear mines in game, but IRL it was used as a direct fire weapon many times:
http://defense-update.com/news/6702carpet.htm

[DRG]

Do all the Mekavas use the Nochri Dalet Mine type Roller System ? If yes I'll fix those Icons that show the plow attached