(Shocking) News!!!!!

[Thermodyne]

atomannj said:
Hey have any of you ever heard of Galactic Civilizations? That is thru Strategy First as well and it was a great CIV3 in space game. I'm not worried. I can't wait for SE:V. Just make sure that what ever you do you do not cheese out like MMO3.

Ya, I heard of it, even bought a copy. I was not impressed! I still have an account, and IMHO the game sucked. But then my opinion could be biased because of the Space Empires series.

Personally, I think that their forum system was a PITA. And I doubt that they are in any way prepared for the kind of fan support that Space Empires will bring with it. I think we will be in for quite an adjustment.

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

Thermodyne said:

Ya, I heard of it, even bought a copy. I was not impressed! I still have an account, and IMHO the game sucked. But then my opinion could be biased because of the Space Empires series.

Personally, I think that their forum system was a PITA. And I doubt that they are in any way prepared for the kind of fan support that Space Empires will bring with it. I think we will be in for quite an adjustment.

You're right. GalCiv SUX big time. I've never even visited the forums or even bought the full game, just played the demo..... lasted lass than ~30 minutes on my HD. A record low. It was just too fricking unclear. Research was weird, space travel didn't feel right, systems weren't used well, and that's about all I can remember from the single game I started (but never finished) before deinstalling the program.

[Thermodyne]

StrategiaInUltima said:

You're right. GalCiv SUX big time. I've never even visited the forums or even bought the full game, just played the demo..... lasted lass than ~30 minutes on my HD. A record low. It was just too fricking unclear. Research was weird, space travel didn't feel right, systems weren't used well, and that's about all I can remember from the single game I started (but never finished) before deinstalling the program.

As I recall, it was a cross between a first person shooter and a treasure hunt, with a tiny little bit of 4X thrown in just to confuse things. And lets not forget the stupid RP stuff. Not my kind of game at all.

[Lisif Deoral]

Well... I actually don't find it too much shocking. I'm starting to wonder if I'm weird

Anyway, I started playing SE III, and the change from shareware to internet publishing (or whatever its name is) was a big one, IMO a lot more relevant than the change from internet-only to retail.

First and foremost, SE IMO isn't really a niche game (you'll disagree, I know). It was developed (and sold) as a niche game (and as shareware until 2000!), though - there isn't anything wrong with it, but this shouldn't lead us to presume that it can't go well on the wider market just because it's indie (or shareware!).
Actually, many games published by Shrapnel aren't niche games - or at least their niche is wider than the one of other games; Austerlitz: NGV wasn't as "nichy" as BCT, for example. IIRC SEIV has been Shrapnel's best seller by far (really, really far, just check the number of posts in the forum): I suppose this means that it has a wider appeal than other titles.

Consider the changes between SEIII and SEIV: the concept is the same, but while SEIII was developed as shareware, SEIV was a commercial game. SEIV graphics are obsolete (even in their format: uncompressed BMPs!), but they are still much better than those of SEIII. SEIV's interface is needlessly complex, but I found the one in SEIII so annoying to even bother learning it (and quit playing even if I thought SEIII was a great game). And so on. Basically, SE III and IV are the same game, with a different development; there are still a lot of margins for improvements in SEV.


Please note that I live in Europe, so I might not fully understand what could be the actual consequences of the publisher change. I think the PC game market is very different here (or at least, I had difficulties understanding large parts of Shrapnel's blog entries on the PC game market status). BTW, I had both SEIV and SEIV Gold shipped from the US by courier. I think I spent more for the courier than for the game.
Now, what could be the consequences of being published by SF? I suppose you could still buy it online (although not from the publisher, I think), and still have a community and some sort of support (from Malfador at the very least). What else?

"Watering down the game" to increase its appeal to hordes of mindless frothing teenagers isn't a consequence IMO, as publishers don't write game code. They can ask the developers to do some changes, but I suppose Aaron knew this when he (willingly) chose his publisher, and thus anticipated the possibility of any such changes - the game is still his own, not SF's. Should he self-destroy his game in an attempt to gain popularity, it would be his fault...
Also, even if the game sets the new world record for worst sellers in history I don't think Aaron would be jailed for it, so I suppose he'd still be able to develop SEVI. By the way, the hordes of mindless whining kids won't be a problem unless the game has some success, so the two fears are mutually exclusive

Last but not least, I wished to thank Shrapnel for publishing SE IV. A shareware SEIV wouldn't have been the same thing. I'll be back (for Dominions III).

[Nodachi]

David is correct about the prizes for the PBW tournament not being affected. The tourney was conceived and implemented by Malfador. Shrapnel donated a small prize even knowing we would not be publishing SEV.

That is just plain classy! Hell, most companies would already have shut the game's forum down.

Thank you Shrapnel for all the support of this community over the years.

[Tim Brooks]

Lisif Deoral said:
IIRC SEIV has been Shrapnel's best seller by far (really, really far, just check the number of posts in the forum): I suppose this means that it has a wider appeal than other titles.

You know folks, I really hate to have to come in here and post like this; we sometimes hesitate to post as we have always felt that our forums are for the fans. But we do still have a business to run and it is misinformation like this that can truly affect our business.

All the above quote actually says is that the Space Empires IV crowd is vocal and the game has enjoyed longevity - which, I believe we all knew . We wish we could get the wargamers to be this vocal here, but they have a vast forum network that extends beyond the Intel Forums. The reality though is that SEIV was not our 'best selling game by far'. It however has been in our top 3 sellers since its release over 5 years ago. In 2004 it was beat out by Dominions II, which was our top seller, and, in fact, SEIV came in 4th place for the year.

The other myth I want to dispell is that somehow retail is going to 'get the name out' in a bigger way than we have. Although it could be true for SEV (who knows at this point?), I would say that we have done an excellent job of making the public aware of SEIV. With over 1 million demo downloads (and it could be much, much more than this, as I stopped following the numbers a couple of years ago), I would say the public is quite aware of SEIV.

If SEV is a major success at retail, it would be due in no small part to our efforts with SEIV (and I think that is what personally hurts me most with Aaron's defection). The reality is that Strategy First does not compete well at retail. How can they compete marketing wise with companies the like of EA and Ubisoft? And as you all know, to excel at retail you need the masses. The game must sell to more than the hardcore strategy fan to do the numbers you need to succeed. This takes informing the masses, and Strategy First doesn't have that kind of money.

I believe I know why Aaron went with Strategy First, based on our convesations of last year. My understanding is his decision was based on the sales of Galactic Civ, a true expception to the niche market rule (name another niche market game in the last 6 years that has done anywhere near that well). If I am not mistaken GC sold over 100,000 units at retail, but this was not due to Strategy First's market penetration, but to Brad Wardell's name and standing in this industry. Search for GC on any search engine, and you come up with not Strategy First entries, but Brad Wardell entries. Now, do a search for SEIV and see who comes up?

In closing, just remember that a defection of a popular developer like Malfador will stir up this industry, and it is our job to make sure that it is put in perspective. Please don't assimilate information that just isn't true. It makes our job much harder.

[tesco samoa]

Update on the Tourny Prizes. They will not be affected... Our goal is still the same. Thank Aaron for SEIV and support SEV. This does not change. SJ and I are still buying the copies of SEV out of our pocket. That does not change. Nor does the other prizes.

And to toot my own horn.... Annette it was I who came up with the idea for the tourney My thankyou to everyone. I get to toot it very little so toot toot ! Narf help me out here...

[Annette]

tesco samoa said:
And to toot my own horn.... Annette it was I who came up with the idea for the tourney My thankyou to everyone. I get to toot it very little so toot toot ! Narf help me out here...

I stand corrected, Tesco. Thanks for the clarification. My intention was to dispell any perception that the tourney was sponsored by Shrapnel and to clarify it's not affected by this announcement in any way.

[Gandalf Parker]

Tim Brooks said:
I believe I know why Aaron went with Strategy First, based on our convesations of last year. My understanding is his decision was based on the sales of Galactic Civ, a true expception to the niche market rule (name another niche market game in the last 6 years that has done anywhere near that well). If I am not mistaken GC sold over 100,000 units at retail, but this was not due to Strategy First's market penetration, but to Brad Wardell's name and standing in this industry. Search for GC on any search engine, and you come up with not Strategy First entries, but Brad Wardell entries. Now, do a search for SEIV and see who comes up?

Thats highly unfortunate. I know of Brad Wardell and GalCiv for many MANY years. Any conversation in AI newsgroups brought him and the game to mention as a prime example of game AI. I was always peeved that it was an OS/2 game making use of the multi-tasking in that OS. When I heard that BW was jumping on WinXP as possibly finally being able to run the game properly I rushed to pre-order it. (unfortunately so far Im not thrilled with the porting of it)

From what I see in newsgroups I think that a definate sizeable chunk of GalCiv sales was due to it showing up on shelves but it was because of old-timers like me seeing it and saying "is that the GalCiv I kept hearing about and could never run". There was a ready-made market if you could catch the eye of the people who normaly dont glance at the games anymore. Im not sure if there is much of a "lost gamers" market with fond memories of SEIII and SEIV to be snagged by SEV. There probably is but Im not sure that they cant mostly still be reached by newsgroups and game-mag reviews. Maybe there are, time will tell.

[tesco samoa]

Back again.

Tim to quote you

All the above quote actually says is that the Space Empires IV crowd is vocal and the game has enjoyed longevity - which, I believe we all knew . We wish we could get the wargamers to be this vocal here, but they have a vast forum network that extends beyond the Intel Forums. The reality though is that SEIV was not our 'best selling game by far'. It however has been in our top 3 sellers since its release over 5 years ago. In 2004 it was beat out by Dominions II, which was our top seller, and, in fact, SEIV came in 4th place for the year.

I do not quite follow this... So for 3 years it sold away and then in year 4 D2 took over for year sales and then to date this year 4th place... So does this mean it is only the best selling game by a little then
No disrespect. Just trying to understand the paragraph.