Scenarios

[Saarud]

It's no secret that the AI is really not up for a competition against humans in sandbox games, so I thought I would download some scenarios to see what specific situations modders have created. But I can't find any scenarios at all, just a bunch of maps, mod nations and some other mod stuff so my question are, is there no interest in scenarios or is it just hard to create scenarios?

What I mean with a scenario is something like Dawn of Dominions map that come with the game but with more content and perhaps a specific victory condition (control 5 VPs before turn 40).

[Edi]

There are very few scenarios, because constructing them is a lot more work than making a map and they are not nearly as challenging as a multiplayer game against human players. This has led to scenarios being relegated to a nearly extinct niche.

[13lackGu4rd]

don't think anybody bothered to actually make Scenarios, such as those in the Age of Empires series for example. yeah this forum is "scenarios, maps and mods" but scenarios are pretty much absent from it because most people hate the AI for its stupidity and prefer to just play multiplayer.

[Saarud]

Yeah I understand that MP games are to prefer if you are able to play them, for me it's not really convenient at this time since I don't know how much I can commit to playing and I would only risk of stalling which isn't fair to the rest.

I'm not really into modding but I will try to make a simple scenario anyway. Hmm first I need to think of a theme...

[13lackGu4rd]

you can do a House of the Dead theme, the player(you) is MA Marignon, as it is the main anti undead nation in the game, and very thematic for that with their inquisitors. all the AIs are death nations with plenty of undeads. use single age mod to give you more options. depending on how many AIs you want, you should consider the following nations for it: Ermor(both MA and LA, not EA), C'tis(both EA and LA, not MA), Agartha(LA only), Pangaea(can take all, but MA+LA are better than EA for the theme), Atlantis(LA only), Helheim, Sauromatia and maybe a few Blood nations too, mainly Mictlan(EA and LA not MA) and LA Ulm, for a touch of blood along with the blood+death combination(Onaquis for Mictlan) which among other things gets you into Vampires.

[Saarud]

Originally Posted by 13lackGu4rd

you can do a House of the Dead theme, the player(you) is MA Marignon, as it is the main anti undead nation in the game, and very thematic for that with their inquisitors. all the AIs are death nations with plenty of undeads. use single age mod to give you more options. depending on how many AIs you want, you should consider the following nations for it: Ermor(both MA and LA, not EA), C'tis(both EA and LA, not MA), Agartha(LA only), Pangaea(can take all, but MA+LA are better than EA for the theme), Atlantis(LA only), Helheim, Sauromatia and maybe a few Blood nations too, mainly Mictlan(EA and LA not MA) and LA Ulm, for a touch of blood along with the blood+death combination(Onaquis for Mictlan) which among other things gets you into Vampires.

Yeah actually that sounds like fun. I could create some really wicked pretenders for the AIs and perhaps sprinkle some sites to make the scenario feel more thematic. To bad you can't mod events or mercenaries.

[Gandalf Parker]

There would be many more scenarios, except that the scenario ability which was in Dom2 is broken in Dom3. Most of the features which should be in scenario will not work for a downloaded file run in local mode. To get a scenario game you have to step majorly into server mode, which means that it might as well be an MP game as long as you have already gone to all that trouble.

In Dom2 I had a scenario where D.A.R.E. (the Deadly Atlantis Rlyeh Ermor alliance) was well settled and defended on a map challenging the players to be forced into an alliance of their own to defeat the threat. But in Dom3 that becomes almost worthless as a download and only reasonably possible if I run it from my server.

Here is a thread about what is and isnt in the scenario tag of Dom3
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43209

And here is a thread which tries to get around those limitations by various creative means
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39304

If you do decide to do a scenario style game Im totally willing to host it for you.

[Saarud]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

There would be many more scenarios, except that the scenario ability which was in Dom2 is broken in Dom3. Most of the features which should be in scenario will not work for a downloaded file run in local mode. To get a scenario game you have to step majorly into server mode, which means that it might as well be an MP game as long as you have already gone to all that trouble.

In Dom2 I had a scenario where D.A.R.E. (the Deadly Atlantis Rlyeh Ermor alliance) was well settled and defended on a map challenging the players to be forced into an alliance of their own to defeat the threat. But in Dom3 that becomes almost worthless as a download and only reasonably possible if I run it from my server.

Here is a thread about what is and isnt in the scenario tag of Dom3
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43209

And here is a thread which tries to get around those limitations by various creative means
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39304

If you do decide to do a scenario style game Im totally willing to host it for you.

Interesting posts. Thanks Gandalf I am sure those links will help me alot!

It's baby steps for me however, while I loved doing scenarios for Civ 2, Dom 3 is a totally different beast to tame. First thing would be to create a map such like Dawn of Dominions with fixed start provinces for different nations. Then I go from there. I have to acknowledge that some things are NOT doable such like events or mercenaries so I will have to work around that somehow.

Also I am a SP player and the scenarios I am thinking about is more like challenges where the player is placed in a situation where he has to try and overpower the AI.

[Gandalf Parker]

Much can be done there. Altho there are many standard complaints about the AI, many of them can be "fixed" at least partially by some design at the beginning of the game instead of letting the AI go thru its normal random decision making.

Such as....
the AI does handle some nations and situations better than others. So being selective in the nations you use as opponents can help.

Some modded nations are even more selective in making available what the AI does well and removing what it doesnt. Those can not only provide better challenges but also a welcome surprise since they are not nations that the player has already played a hundred times. There are also mods and maps designed to help the AI play better

Map commands can be used to "design" better starts for AI nations. Such as selecting a pretender. One of the common complaints is "the AI sends its pretender to war, or worse yet to Arenas". This is said so often as to make it appear that its all the time. Actually, the AI does make an effort to selectively recognize its pretenders. If a pretender is what most people would consider an SC (super combatant) then the AI tends to use it more for war and arenas which might not be smart but still isnt mindless. But I do find it beneficial to give the AI immobile pretenders, or "rainbows", or even bless pretenders in some cases if you avoid the usual SC chassis that tend to be used for them.

The AI can take scales which are actually damaging to its choice of nation. Even to the point that the nation can kill itself off before you ever reach it. So having designed AIs with map commands for appropriate scales can be a big help.

The game gets more and more complicated as it goes along. But with some tweaking the AI can provide a game thru early and into mid-game. In late game its unlikely to be a challenge unless a dungeonmaster mod of some sort is used to direct it (by the way such mods also allow for things like mid game messages and personalized events)

Of course no AI is AH (almost human). So you might want to give it some boosts. Map commands can also be used to give the AI starting equipment, extra forts, extra armies, extra magic and scales beyond what the player can get.

If you want to test your designs it is possible to manually create a nation then go AI (within player limits). Its also possible to use the debug log to see the AI thinking, or use the no-longer-secret --comptrn switch to be able to load up AI turn files to view what they are doing just as if they were your own turn files.

[Gandalf Parker]

oh and before I forget be sure to look at the SemiRand program which extensively tries to improve maps and AIs entirely by use of map commands. The files it uses to randomly insert things to the map are entirely ascii text so you can glean much from browsing them