Thank you Stormbinder!

[Stormbinder]

If it turns out to be hex editing then there is no vulnerability to be "fixed". That would mean that he directly edited the files. A file can always be hex edited. If you want to see it just open a DOS window and use debug to view the file. (NOT recommended)

More checks and encryption could maybe be added if the devs wish but that would tend to cause alot of complaints.

I disagree Gandalf. I am a programmer myself, just like you, and I certanly don't agree that hex-editing is impossible to beat or detect, especially in the game like Dom2.



It is possible to make a game such as Dom2 much more hackproof against various forms of cheats, including "dreaded" hex editing. The combination of better and more powerful encryption methods that those that are being used now, with changes along the lines of what Mose have mentioned (BTW the mantra of all network security programmers is "Remember! The client is in the hands of the enemy!" ), with any numbers of additional security checks can make dom 2 *much* more difficult to hack, or even completely hack proof, depending how much efforts and changes into client/server architecture and tasks balancing devs would be willing to do to improve security.


Finally, I just don't think that the solution that Gandalf proposed "Sorry, but this game can always be hacked, just choose your partners carefully" would be an acceptable solution to a lot of Dom2 players. The typical MP Dom2 game can take anywhere from 4 to 17 players. When people invest *days* of their time into game with many other playes, some of whom they don't know very well, they want to be sure that they are not wasting their time playng against some jerk with unlimited ammount of gems. I am sure you understand such feelings.

Regards,
Stormbinder

[Gandalf Parker]

It is possible to make a game such as Dom2 much more hackproof against various forms of cheats, including "dreaded" hex editing. The combination of better and more powerful encryption methods that those that are being used now, with changes along the lines of what Mose have mentioned (BTW the mantra of all network security programmers is "Remember! The client is in the hands of the enemy!" ), with any numbers of additional security checks can make dom 2 *much* more difficult to hack, or even completely hack proof, depending how much efforts and changes into client/server architecture and tasks balancing devs would be willing to do to improve security.


Finally, I just don't think that the solution that Gandalf proposed "Sorry, but this game can always be hacked, just choose your partners carefully" would be an acceptable solution to a lot of Dom2 players. The typical MP Dom2 game can take anywhere from 4 to 17 players. When people invest *days* of their time into game with many other playes, some of whom they don't know very well, they want to be sure that they are not wasting their time playng against some jerk with unlimited ammount of gems. I am sure you understand such feelings.

OK I will stop trying to say people are arguing things I didnt say, and agree with you. Some protection can be added. It still will be possible to hex edit it but much more difficult. And "choosing your partners carefully or taking your chances" as a slight effort to avoid playing with a cheater is not a good answer.

I dont think I said anything in disagreement with what you just said, but yes, the way you said it is correct.

[Leif_-]

It is possible to make a game such as Dom2 much more hackproof against various forms of cheats, including "dreaded" hex editing.

Putting on my software engineering hat for a moment:

While it is possible to make a bullet-proof server, it is not necessarily practically possible to make an existing server bullet-proof. Judging by some of the previous bugs, I suspect that in Dominions 2 the GUI is mashed in with the underlying game logic to such a degree that it would probably take an almost complete redesign and rewriting of the game engine to accomplish. That would be too much work to invest over some very rare incidents of cheating.

Remember, if it was easy to make secure software, people would do it more often.

The combination of better and more powerful encryption methods that those that are being used now,

Just a very minor nitpick here, but you can't really encrypt the turn files from the eyes of the player. As the player has access to the binary which generates the turn-file in the first place, he has always theoretical access to the plain-text - regardless of what encryption method is applied. The correct term to use would be "obfuscate."

(And yes, this is hair-splitting - at least when we're talking of nothing more important than turns for a game.)

Finally, I just don't think that the solution that Gandalf proposed "Sorry, but this game can always be hacked, just choose your partners carefully" would be an acceptable solution to a lot of Dom2 players.

Why not? It's not like anyone plays this game professionally for money, and even if people did, the existance of some amount of cheating is accepted in other games and sports that people play for money.

[Wyxard]

I still don't understand why someone would cheat?
If I play chess and give myself all queens, so I always win, how is this fun? why would Norfleet or anyone do this? where is the reward to winning if you cheat? these people ruin the games for everyone and waste a lot of our time. <end of rant>