Caelum pretender design

[Arryn]

I'm curious as to what sort of pretender design -- excluding the Vampire Queen -- the experienced players of (base) Caelum out there are using. Do you go for an SC chassis, or a research chassis? Do you give the pretender the same magic paths as the national mages, or something completely different?

[archaeolept]

you mean caelum is allowed to take a pretender other than the VQ?



;P

I haven't played caelum, but it certainly has the points for a massive SC, and little reason not to go for one.

[Truper]

The Caelum design currently living on my machine is a Ghost King - 3A 2W 3E 3D. Standard research alteration and stomp indies tactics. Later on his earth and death will be useful for forging/summons.

I also like using a Son of Neifel with, say, 3W 4B. This is if I want to turn Caelum into a blood nation, and get the ice devils.

Both these pretenders attempt to leverage Caelum's cold - ghosts, winter wolves and ice devils love it.

Neither of them is maxed out - I'm more fond of good scales and strong dominion than many players.

[Kel]

Hehe, I wasn't going to say anything as I don't necessarily think I am experienced with Caelum but that GK is the exact same one I have been using lately

- Kel

[Arryn]

It's interesting that you should pick a GK with 3A2W3E3D, as I've had good success with a very similar one (3A3W3E2D). Why do you prefer 2W3D over 3W2D? For the summons later on?

Does anyone play with a Sage (or other human) pretender?

How would you design a Nat? And does anyone prefer the Nat over the GK (and why)?

[Maltrease]

The Caelum build that I have had very good success with.

Oracle with Astral 4
Dominion 6 or 7
Cermonial Faith (take advantage of steathly preachers)
Order 3
Productivity 3
Cold 3
Growth 3
Magic 3

Castle - Castle.

Caelium's mages and begining troops are very capable of taking provenences by themselves. Usually from turn 2 on with this build. You get a ton of money (to buy all those cheap mages). And your income continues to improve as the game goes on thanks to growth.

The oracle can be used for Archiac record with the astrals you get from clamming your water gems. Later the oracle can forge sorcery rings so your arch seraphs can get to death 2, nature 2, where they can forge addional path boosters.

The oracle with equipment also has a good chance of catching a couple SC's with a mind hunt and forcing them to counter with higher MR items.

I have tried this build with Sloth 3 (for the extra 240 points). While Sloth would not be a problem in the late game it really slows the early expansion down, plus makes a significant dent in your income.

My current build (untested in MP) is to also take Misfortune 2 (and 1 less dominion I think). And give my oracle Astral 5, Earth 3. This allows the creation of golems, hammers, and crystal coins. It also give easier access to wish in the late game by using a sorc ring, wiz ring, crystal coin, and tome of high power.

[archaeolept]

3D for soul vortex

i love GK's, but here we see another indication that they really are a bit underpriced. even upping initial path costs to 30 would work, I think.

Nat's have fatigue problems, so you need to use a slot to give them cold resistance right away.

[Truper]

Right. 3D for soul vortex, and to be within range of things like Harvester of Sorrows and Ghost Riders with 1 booster, or Wraith Lords with 2. If the GK's paths were changed to 30, (which probably is needed - Ghost Kings are very common), I'd probably drop the water, forgo breath of winter, and get quickness from boots.

Lately I've been thinking that nations really need access to death more than any other path - for wraith swords, if nothing else. Life-draining has become a topic of frequent discussion in my Dom2 circle, with a general consensus developing that its too powerful.

[Lex]

weird, I've always found that Caelum's starting troops die off too fast against indies.. I've found that keeping the starting troops on patrol, getting double income on my capital, and clearing indies with a Wyrm loaded with A3W2D3E3 works better. The income boost from using your inital troops to patrol lets you build a fortification on the second turn, which lets you start recruiting more seraphs sooner.

[Boron]

Arryn said:
I'm curious as to what sort of pretender design -- excluding the Vampire Queen -- the experienced players of (base) Caelum out there are using. Do you go for an SC chassis, or a research chassis? Do you give the pretender the same magic paths as the national mages, or something completely different?

i am not experienced but i saw in a brief overlook not mentioned one pretender :

the nataraja .

since caelum has quite a few points from cold 3 you can make a really cool nataraja .

if she gets wounded she is a bit screwed but lategame you can get fairy queens to heal her .