MP Game - "Throne Of Heavens", veterans and experienced players only (full)

[Stormbinder]

archaeolept said:
storm, why won't you address the fact that me and quantum have abandoned any suggestion of an allied victory, since it seems to have blown a fuse in your brain?

there is no allied victory. deal w/ it.

unless your problem is that there exists any alliance against you (which I am pretty sure is your real beef). however, I really don't think military alliances are against the rules of this game

To archae : Yeah, right. You should drop that "allied victory" crap that you came up with when I strongly objected to it to both you and quantum 3 turns ago, telling you what I think about it. Instead you completely ignored it, laughing and basicly telling me to take a hike, that it is not agaisnt the rules, etc.

Well, guess what? Take a hike.

After 3 or 4 turns of your "allied victory" war with 20-30+ battles per turn only on my part, and with your nation overruning the entire NE part of the southern continent as a direct result of your "allied victory" plan, it's a bit too late for that now, don't you think? You would never archieved anything close to the gains that you got if not for your "victory partner", and you know it very well. Besides even if I would be willing to continue, and pretend to believe you, what exactly would be changed?? Absolutely nothing. After what was said here in this thread, you and QM would do *exactly* what you were planing to do, just for the heck of it, but this time you simply would not tell about it in public. Don't think people are stupid Archae. That only makes yourself look stupid.

[archaeolept]

Maltrease is very polite guy who does not like controversy, but I think he feels the same.

lol, i'm so glad you feel qualified to speak for him. however, the truth is that the original victory alliance was between him and me. He left to side w/ you in order to keep the game more balanced, since none of us, besides you, thinks victory alliances mean much.

Anyways, as we've said many times: there is no allied victory w/ me and quant any more, so you have no leg to stand on.

malt isn't that interested in continuing because he's basically out of the game. He's been begging to be taken out for turns

as to izaqyos, i'm not sure what his current position is. certainly i don't trust you to provide it.

Frankly Storm, your prevarications and confabulations border on the pathological.

There is no more tentative agreement for an allied victory in order to avoid a tedious endgame. That is finished. So play your move - and if you feel incapable of it, at least make the attempt to find a sub. Otherwise you are just a little ****.

[quantum_mechani]

This is spinning way out of control. Caine said earlier that I had no reason to be upset with Storm before joining the game, and that's true. Infact, I still am not interested in a conflict over this. I'm merely attempting to end this game in a way that most of the remaining players can agree with. What you say about my comments about the end game are true, but nothing was ever set in stone about what exactly would happen when Storm was gone. Strangely enough, our brief 3 turn war was actually one of the more interesting parts of the game to me (because of my general dislike of the late game, this was only my second expirience I have had fighting a war in it, so I got to use/see tactics that I had not previously).

What I can't understand is how Storm's quitting was tied to whether there would be any kind of alliance victory. The issues seem totally separate, after all, Storm's empire would be gone before it ever became an issue.

[Stormbinder]

quantum_mechani said:
This is spinning way out of control. Caine said earlier that I had no reason to be upset with Storm before joining the game, and that's true. Infact, I still am not interested in a conflict over this.

*shrug* I am not interested in the conflict myself. The purpose of my original message was to express my feelings over direction of the game have taken at the end, and why I am bowing out of it. In fact, in my original message I said that your and Miclan nations played well and become 2 out of 3 the major nations in this game at the end.

What you say about my comments about the end game are true, but nothing was ever set in stone about what exactly would happen when Storm was gone.

Sorry quantum, but if you admit that what I said about your comments are true (and it is true), than that's exactly what they meant. "Joint victory" agreement that Mictlan had offered to you, which, as you both said, was largly motivated by your strong mutual dislike for the endgames, leaved only one road open. The road our game took during these Last 5 turns.

Strangely enough, our brief 3 turn war was actually one of the more interesting parts of the game to me (because of my general dislike of the late game, this was only my second expirience I have had fighting a war in it, so I got to use/see tactics that I had not previously).

Well, I am glad you seem to change your opinion about endgames. Personally I think endgames are a lot of fun, especialy in a game such as our, which had several very strong nations at the end, and few minor one. All with very large resourses, very different armies and very different battle tactics. Honestly I was looking forward toward very interesting endgame.

All I can say is that I wish you would come to this conclusion about endgames earlier and would refuse the "shortcut" that Mictlan had offered to you.

What I can't understand is how Storm's quitting was tied to whether there would be any kind of alliance victory. The issues seem totally separate, after all, Storm's empire would be gone before it ever became an issue.

It is quite an opposite. These issues are very tightly connected, since the only reason why my empire would be gone was your "joint victory" agreement.

Heh, funny thing is that archae even had guts to ask me "why I would not try to break your alliance diplomatically?" What a joke. How could one possibly break an alliance where both partners decided that they will share the victory in the game after they crash all opposition? And why would somebody want to waste 20-30 more turns with 20-40 battles per turn, as I had during Last 3 or 4 turns, disregarding the fact that the game he would be playing will no longer be FFA but "team game" instead, simply because 2 players decided that it will be so mostly because they both didn't like endgames at the time when they forged their agreement?

Frankly it does not make any sense to me.


Anyway, if you or Arcahe will find subs for all missing players (it looks like you need to find subs for my Vanheim, R'lyeh, and probably Marignon), I'll gladly send to somebody my two passwords for this game. But I can't honestly ask somebody to sub for Vanheim because I would not imagine somebody would want to play Vanheim, or any other in-game nations except your two, in the "team game" where 1 pre-set team has much more resourses than the rest of the nations combined. And also because the game I would be recruiting for will be no longer FFA game that it was supposed to be.


But who knows, maybe somebody will be interested, perhaps for pure educational or for masohistic purposes. I'll reset new 6000 hours timer one more time if you want me to.

[WraithLord]

I think it's prefectly reasonable for two nations to ally against another for whatever reason.
I don't have a problem with Pan & Mictlan alliance.
My problem is that by deciding on an allied victory in our FFA game they turned the tables for other players.
If Pan & Mictlan want to wipe Van, R'lyeh and Marignon and then settle it out between then I consider it perfectly acceptable.
So long as there's one winner to the game not two.
It's a subtle but important difference.

Anyway, this conflict is blown way out of proportions.
After reading the opinions of the involved players and better
understanding the situation and especially that there isn't going to be an allied victory I am all for continuing the game.

Yes, my position isn't strong and I will most probably not win the game.
So what?! as long as the game is fair I will continue to enjoy it till I'm blown off the face of the map .

So if you guys are willing to settle your differences, by all means let's continue the game!