early fightin' pretender spells

[Cainehill]

One problem with the phoenix is that it _will_ cast Shock Wave and kill itself when Immolation is just as viable a spell, and much better in that it's immune to fire.

So in a sense, a phoenix geared to air might be better, if you're planning to, mmm, waste a turn casting magic to become immune to lightning. Or if you're wearing a ring of tamed lightning.

Fire/Air combined makes a very nice phoenix; adding earth makes it even sweeter ( some armor spells, magma bolts, summon earthpower, bladewind, and higher level magma eruption are all very nice ). It's late here, but I think there was another path I had success adding to the phoenix as a third path....

[Tuna]

I'd just like to point out that fighting early indies is not the only thing a pretender is going to do. For example, if I'm doing a pretender for arco, it will most likely have at least death-4 for all those nice thugs. Most other non-nature nations will need some nature in case you will have to face a dead ermor, and for faery queens and the like in the late game. In games with only a few players, e-2 (if you have feet) for hammers. etc etc.

Because of this, when designing, I dont usually think "Now what paths will I have to take so that I will mop indies?", but, "How can I capitalize on these paths so that I can mop up indies?".

My current fave is a Prince of Death with 5-7 death (just put in all points you have no better use for), 5 air and 3-4 earth. Early, give him 2 water swords (or other high-def weapons if water gems are not availale), research alt-3 and off you go. Later, he calls death thugs, forges hammers and staves of elemental mastery, calls air queens and earth kings, and works as a decent battlefield sc/ artillery platform. Works well with arco, caelum, pythium, etc.

[rylen]

Hmm . . . I did present this in terms of distinct paths. In actual play, I've frequently been picking things up in blocks of 4 to get the minimum bless effect. Often Astral + Earth w/ a little Water. (Gets me the coin for an early astral boost, good forging stuff, and claymen in addition to the Ash search.)

So, leaving out the artillery (and there's lots of great artillery), what are the useful early game mixed path combat spells? All the ones mentioned (and the ones I can think of except Last ditch Inner Sun) are ranged.

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Tuna, I agree w/ how you pose the question. I'm trying to expand how well I can capitalize on paths for early expansion.

Edi -- had not tried a combat phoenix. Intresting.

Also, never touched a dragon. The cost of that 2nd path was offputting. But, I should give it a shot.

Rylen

[Edi]

rylen said:
Also, never touched a dragon. The cost of that 2nd path was offputting. But, I should give it a shot.

Green drqagon is nice, all you need to research is personal regen (I forget which school it belongs to) and you're set to go. Just make sure no to use this drake with a nation that has sacred mages or they will go berserk if anyone looks at them funny instead of doing what they should. Even if you get afflictions, you should be able to put up GoH rather quickly (unless you are unlucky to get feebleminded of course). My friend has also used Green and Blue Dragons, so I've seen how effective they can be when used right. Blue is good for Vanheim, having quickness and additional defense for the already formidable van and valkyries is alway s a good thing, and the blue drake is the only way to get that reasonably.

Edi

[Tuna]

rylen said:
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So, leaving out the artillery (and there's lots of great artillery), what are the useful early game mixed path combat spells? All the ones mentioned (and the ones I can think of except Last ditch Inner Sun) are ranged.

Can't rememer a single one... However, of the artillery, I'd just like to point out that acidic stuff is quite good, esp when you have paths that exceed the requirements by much. And it also stays good, because there is not acid resistance in the game. There just are not very many mages in the game that can cast them.

Also, never touched a dragon. The cost of that 2nd path was offputting. But, I should give it a shot.

I havent ever taken a 2nd path for a dragon... They are just a chassis for getting blessings. The blue (quickness& cold) and green (regen) do quite well vs indies, esp when you really dont have to care all that much if they live or die. Midgame the blue dragon can be a truly great caster for the falling frost.

[Vicious Love]

Belated thread ressurection here, but doesn't anyone find the reinvigoration/life drain/Soul Drain, Phoenix Pyre, and immortal/recuperating SC pretender combo worthwhile?
All the perks of an ordinary SC, repeatedly, until stun damage or afflictions take you out, and all it takes is fire 2 and a grotesque amount of research.