Ulm beefed up ...

[Boron]

Graeme Dice said:

Vanheim's Dwarves are E3?1, and nobody seems to complain about those too much. Really, Ulm needs a lot of help. I'd probably also give Black Lords 50% resist all elements as well, so that you can slap an elemental armour on them and go to town against SCs. That way people wouldn't be able to ignore the heavy armour so easily.

Yeah but the vanheim smiths have no forgebonus and they are capitol only !

I share your idea with black lords .
I suggested earlier to give the black knights 50% SR as well to make them endure 2-4 hits by lightning rather then 1-2 .

If you give the black lords 50% elemental resistence from start but don't change their bad MR that would be probably a nice idea . They would be like mechanical men then , killable with mr-negates spells but otherwise really hard to kill .

So new changes :
-black knights have 50% SR
-black lords have 50% elemental resistence
-master smiths cost 150 gold but have E2F1N1 magic

What do you think ?

Giving them E3 would be unfair because the only 2 nations that have that are vanheim and pangenea .
Vanheim i made my reasons above and pangeneas pans are so expensive that you can't field many .

[PvK]

Oh weird, I thought Blade Wind was a national spell of Ulm, but it's not. Just Legions of Steel...

PvK

[Sandman]

After some consideration, here's my Ulm. It doesn't change things that drastically, it just gives them some more magical breathing room, with more efficient research and higher MR elite units.

New unit:Apprentice Smith

A one-earth, drain-immune forger. Costs 65 gold. His intended role is primarily off the battlefield; researching and forging low-level earth items. On the battlefield, he's limited to casting light buffs and flying shards.

New starting spell:Iron Will

This is a nice spell for Ulm; accurate, useful and thematic. And of course, the apprentice smith is tailor-made for casting it.

Plus, it's from a magic school (Thaumaturgy) which isn't really high on Ulm's agenda, so giving them this will spare them some research.

New Item: Drain Stone

This low-level Earth item grants its wielder immunity to drain, like an Smith. The intended use for this item is to allow indy mages used by Ulm to research to the best of their abilities. It's essentially the same as an owl quill.

Unit Change: Better Guardians

Reduce the Guardian's cost to 18 gold, and give him a better halberd (at an increased resource cost). And MR 12. I don't see a problem thematically with giving Ulm's ultra-elite units a bit of a magical protection - they're from the heart of a land of drain, men of iron will, after all.

The regular Ulmish troops can keep their weakish MR; it creates a clearer distinction between the regular grunts and the special troops.

I'm toying with the idea of making the Guardian's weapon able to hit ethereal and/or triple damage versus magical creatures. Now that would be cool. But possibly a bit much, as well?

Unit Change: Better Black Knights

Same as the Guardians: boost their MR to 12. A society which fears magic is going to surely going to want to protect their ultra-elite units against it.

Unit Change: Better Arbalests

Just an HP increase of one, to bring them into line with other Ulmish regulars.

Site Change: Fire Gem Income

Make the Forges of Ulm give one or two fire gems as well as the earth gem income. Sure, it breaks the 'only 5 gems' rule, but so do Pythium and Mictlan.

[Endoperez]

Sandman said:
After some consideration, here's my Ulm. It doesn't change things that drastically, it just gives them some more magical breathing room, with more efficient research and higher MR elite units.

I am not sure of all your chances, see comments below.

New unit:Apprentice Smith

Why would one ever buy this? It is a bad researcher (3 points), cannot cast any useful battle spells (65 gp for 4-5 Iron Wills/battle is not useful IMO), cannot forge any useful items... Master Smiths are what Ulm has. They are cheap, and moderate researchers when one remembers that you get 120 free points from their drain immunity.

New starting spell:Iron Will

Maybe. I haven't used it much, though. Maybe both Legions of Steel and Iron Will?

New Item: Drain Stone

No! With "low Earth" this would take away Ulm's specialty, drain-immune mages - and Ulm would get nothing out of it! Ulm's Master Smiths already are immune, and Ulm would have to find independents to make this useful. Other nations, OTOH, would be able to make Drain-protected Vanir, Mystics, Sea Kings...

Unit Change: Better Guardians
I'm toying with the idea of making the Guardian's weapon able to hit ethereal and/or triple damage versus magical creatures. Now that would be cool. But possibly a bit much, as well?

I agree that some kind of a bonus would be appopriate. Just making it magic weapon able to harm ethereal opponents could do, I think, but extra damage against magical creatures would be very powerfull. I don't know if it would be too much. Is it possible to mod Moon Blade-like extra damage for magical units?

Unit Change: Better Black Knights

They already are quite good. Magic resistance increase would do, also, but much beyond that would be bad IMO.

Unit Change: Better Arbalests
Just an HP increase of one, to bring them into line with other Ulmish regulars.

This is good also. It's not much, but atleast thematic.

Site Change: Fire Gem Income
Make the Forges of Ulm give one or two fire gems as well as the earth gem income. Sure, it breaks the 'only 5 gems' rule, but so do Pythium and Mictlan.

But then, both are known for their high power in ways of magic. Ulm, the nation with as little magic as possible, with higher-than-normal magical resources? Thanks, but no thanks.



You can mod most of these things into Ulm. Apprentice Smiths just needs graphics unless you replace one of Ulm's existing units (maybe one of the Commanders) and drain-immunity is not moddable, but you can give him small research bonus. Magic resistance (or other stats) of existing units are easy to change, and while you might not be able to mod extra damage you can create a new Halberd that will hit magical units. Or use the existing Enchanted Pike, although that wouldn't fit Ulm's magic.

[Sandman]

Why would one ever buy this? It is a bad researcher (3 points), cannot cast any useful battle spells (65 gp for 4-5 Iron Wills/battle is not useful IMO), cannot forge any useful items... Master Smiths are what Ulm has. They are cheap, and moderate researchers when one remembers that you get 120 free points from their drain immunity.

It's a more efficient researcher than the Master Smith; 1 RP for 22 gold, versus 1 RP for 28 gold on the Master Smith. Note that the Sage is 1 RP for 20 gold for Ulm (unless you try putting them where your dominion is weak).

The apprentice can forge one item which I consider useful; the Girdle of Might (+3 strength, +3 reinvigoration) for only 3 earth gems. There are a few other semi-useful items at earth-1, Boots of the Behemoth being one example.

And yes, the apprentice is pretty limited on the battlefield. So are lots of other low-level national mages. Their main role is supporting the Master Smiths via research and simple forges. The Master Smiths are then free to perform more important stuff; complex forges, summons, site-searching and combat.

No! With "low Earth" this would take away Ulm's specialty, drain-immune mages - and Ulm would get nothing out of it! Ulm's Master Smiths already are immune, and Ulm would have to find independents to make this useful. Other nations, OTOH, would be able to make Drain-protected Vanir, Mystics, Sea Kings...

Fair enough. I can't really see any other nation being very competitive if they were employing a drain scale and drain stones strategy, though. I mean, is it worth taking max drain as Vanheim or Arco now, and making up the difference with Owl Quills?

But I'm happy to drop this one. It can't be modded anyway.

I agree that some kind of a bonus would be appopriate. Just making it magic weapon able to harm ethereal opponents could do, I think, but extra damage against magical creatures would be very powerfull. I don't know if it would be too much. Is it possible to mod Moon Blade-like extra damage for magical units?

I don't think that it is... I'll just go with the ability to hit ethereal stuff.

But then, both are known for their high power in ways of magic. Ulm, the nation with as little magic as possible, with higher-than-normal magical resources? Thanks, but no thanks.

Hmm, that's true. But then again, the Forges of Ulm are, well, forges. And Ulm is known for forging stuff.

I may try enacting some of these changes via a mod. I'll probably use the Black Acolyte (useless unit) as the graphical base for the Apprentice Smith.

[Arralen]

It's Heavy Inf and Knights is (nearly) all that Ulm has, troops-wise, that is. Now, if I compare those troops to other nations (esp. those which came into the game later) heavy troops, it's clear that Ulms troops quite suck compared to other nations heavy infantry !:

- They don't have +2HP (as it may have been intended), but only +1HP compared with other HI. And 11 or 12 does not make that much of a difference.

- They are 10 gold - ATT/DEF 10 troops. Arco Hoplite costs 10, has ATT/DEF 11 (gold shouldn't be a prob with Ulm, though)

- Add to this the fact that all of their weapons have negative DEF modifiers ..

- They are supposed to be bigger .. but maybe they should train their strength, too (10 vs 11 of the Hoplite)..

- Moral is only 10 vs 11-12 on the others. Add the fact that Ulm does not get Holy-3 priests and therefore cannot cast "sermon of courage" ..

##############################################
Ulm Infantry
HP 12 STR 10
ATT 10 DEF 10
MOR 10 MR 9
ENC 3 MOV 1/7

Hammer 7/0/-1/1 / Morning Star 6/1/-2/2
Full Chain Mail 14/-3/3
Tower Shield 3/4/2

10 gold 23 ress
---------------------------

Ulm Black Plate Inf
HP 12 STR 10
ATT 10 DEF 10
MOR 10 MR 9
ENC 3 MOV 1/5

Hammer 7/0/-1/1
Full Plate o'Ulm 18/-5/5
Tower Shield 3/4/2

10 gold 36 ress
==============================

Pyhtium Principe
HP 11 STR 10
ATT 11 DEF 11
MOR 12 MR 10
ENC 3 MOV 2/8

Short Sword 5/0/1/1
Lorica 10/-1/2
Tower Shield 3/4/2

15 gold 19 ress
---------------------------

Machaka Hoplite
HP 11 STR 10
ATT 11 DEF 11
MOR 11 MR 10
ENC 2 MOV 1/12

Machaka Spear 5/-1/-1/5
Plate Hauberk 14/-2/4
Great Hide Shield 2/4/1

12 gold 24 ress
----------------------------

Arco Hoplite

HP 11 STR 11
ATT 11 DEF 11
MOR 12 MR 10
ENC 3 Mov 1/7

Long Spear 3/0/-1/5
Plate Hauberk 14/-2/4
Round Shield 3/2/1

10 gold 28 ress
-----------------------------

[Morkilus]

Hmm and here I thought I was playing with tough little soldiers... Well since I only play SP so far, I suppose it doesn't matter. So is this thread only about the Iron Faith and default Ulm nations? I seem to be enjoying the Black Forest option, since I can diversify quite nicely with all the astral magic available. Trouble is, with the low luck scale my pretender keeps getting more and more cripples; to the point where he was completely blinded. Ooo scary, a blind Manticore.

The good part about Ulm (i'm probably wrong) is that their troops have a low gold cost for their relative staying power on the field, right? As long as they can avoid massed crossbows, fireballs, and squidheads, they do alright for their low paycheck. Their average strength and HP seems like an oversight, however given their "flavor text".

[Tuidjy]

To Cainehill and Graeme Dice:

I can see your point, and I guess your way works just as well. But I do research
Alteration 2 before I sent my GK out by himself. With every other nation, I have
Alteration 2 researched at the end of turn 2, with Ulm, it happens at the end of
turn 3. I consider a GK with Air shield, Quickness, Mirror image, Luck and Twist
far safer to use than one in full armour. I also like to let him research a
bit longer, as Ulm can certainly use it.

Sending the GK with escort is not something I like doing. The chance the escort
routes is there, mostly because the GK kills slowly, and I would much rather
gather a stronger army, and have it take provinces by itself.

... Hmm... I think I will take the ten turn challenge with Ulm.

[Scott Hebert]

Perhaps it's just me, but why does everyone seem to think that Iron Faith's only advantage over base Ulm is the random pick on the Priest.

Did base Ulm get a Holy-3 Inquisitor in 2.15 and I just didn't notice?

As far as the various magic ideas are concerned, they seem a little, well, overdone. If you're going to go the 'apprentice' route, you might as well do all of it.

Apprentice Smith -- 1E
Journeyman Smith -- 2E1F
Master Smith -- 3E1F1R Capital Only

Sounds like a good place to start a 'Guild' theme for Ulm.