Drain Life

[Bummer_Duck]

The one trick that wins Dominions II is to always have a rock to the enemy's
scisors, which is why you will not see a good player whine about nerfing
'overpowered' stuff. There is no tactic without a counter. Fortunately, not
all races have all the tactics and counters... and unfortunately, some races
have too few counters, or none (Ulm)

What is the counters to Ghost riders?

[Verjigorm]

Currently, the best counter to Ghost Riders is a fortification.

[Vicious Love]

Verjigorm said:
Currently, the best counter to Ghost Riders is a fortification.

There's still something to be said for an abomination, or for an adequately-equipped astral mage.

One doesn't <i>need</i> to spam watch towers to defend against Ghost Riders, its simply the most cost-effective option. By a pretty broad margin.
I mean, for the price of an abomination, one could just bring up a dome that provides 50% coverage against all malign magical influences for a good 15 turns. For the price of two abominations in raw dirt, one can instantaneously erect a wizard's tower. And both spells are at lower research levels, too.

[Verjigorm]

We can examine the cost of various counters:

Assumption: 6 gems = 100gp
Abomination Cost: 25 pearls (Level 9 Conj)
Dome of Arcane Warding: 10+ (Level 6 Ench)
Watchtower: 200gp (12 "gems") (Equiv. Level 0 Spell)
Ghost Riders: 5 gems (Level 9 Conj)

First, the Abomination:

Abominations have 4 attacks: 3 Life Drain attacks and 1 Gaze of Death. All of these effects are, generally, useless against a Wraith Lord, so it comes down to basic statistics--the Abomination is simply a better unit. It regenerates 27hp per round as well... Unfortunately, the Wraith Lord gets a Bane Blade, so he still has a chance to kill your precious, exensive Abomination. We'll take Bummer's assumption that an Abom can deter 1.5 GR spells... 1.5 X GR = 10 1 x Abom = 25.

Abomination is not cost effective

Dome of Arcane Warding: 10 + duration
DOAW blocks 50% of all GR spells. If a GR spell gets through the dome, and the province is not well-defended, the dome is destroyed and the gems wasted. Assuming 1 cast per round, the dome will probably be useful only 1 time (assumption: the dome works the first time and fails the second). 10 gems for 1 block costs opponent an extra 5 gems. DOAW is (very shakily) equivalent in cost to GR.

Watchtower: equivalent of 12 gems, blocks all GR castings.
Clearly this method is quite effective.

Some others:

Dome of Solid Air: Breaks when penetrated, 80% protection, cost 20 gems. This one is much more effective against GR, but it can be brought down (usually by a barrage of cheap spells e.g. Seeking Arrow).

Mechanical Militia: 5 mechanical men adds significant power to PD, but is it enough to combat GR? I haven't tested it. This spell however is expensive and dispellable.

Haunted Forest/Enchanted Forest: HF with death scale can provide some Manikin, Enchanted Forest with growth provides an increasing number of Vinemen (neither of which will run from the WL). Can they handle GR? I'm thinking HF = no, EF = no (unless you have an ungodly amount of them). Of course both spells are very costly and can be dispelled and possibly defeated by the GR.

Wizard's Tower (the spell) costs 50 gems, a lot more than a simple watchtower (or even Castles, Hill Forts etc.)

Three red Seconds costs 120 blood slaves. Blood nations can often achieve a sufficient hunting rate to make 1 a round, but a standard fortress is MUCH cheaper (you can't convert blood slaves to gold...unless you trade them to another player.)

[Saber Cherry]

Verjigorm said:
Unfortunately, the Wraith Lord gets a Bane Blade, so he still has a chance to kill your precious, exensive Abomination.

According to the unit database, the Wraith Lord you get from Ghost Riders is the mounted one (#182) with Broad Sword, Lance, and Helmet. He has no magic and is not as good as the conjured, horseless one (181, whose death-3 gives him fear+3) and nowhere near as good as Emmitu (#183).

Emmitu with a horror helmet and other junk is quite awesome. I had one with heroic quickness +2XX% once, empowered him with water for Quickness, and he was killing scores of units every turn. I think he's the best national hero.

[Bummer_Duck]

Verjigorm said:
Currently, the best counter to Ghost Riders is a fortification.

LOL. A fort is the best counter? and there are people who think it isn't overpowered? That's comical.

No wonder everyone spams cheap forts. I begin to see the reason for never selecting the other forts.

Logically then, Phantasmal Attack should be just as powerful as GR...is it? or is that underpowered in comparison?

[Graeme Dice]

Bummer_Duck said:
What is the counters to Ghost riders?

Spells that don't tend to target lifeless troops, such as drain life, work very well, as they will go for the wraiths leading the horsemen.

[Bummer_Duck]

Graeme Dice said:
Spells that don't tend to target lifeless troops, such as drain life, work very well, as they will go for the wraiths leading the horsemen.

Hmmm...so you need a large army in every province to protect a couple mages that can probably only deal with 1 or 2 GR's. Or am I missing something?

[Graeme Dice]

Bummer_Duck said:
Hmmm...so you need a large army in every province to protect a couple mages that can probably only deal with 1 or 2 GR's. Or am I missing something?

A large army can deal with a dozen ghost riders, as dealing with them is no different than dealing with any Ermorian army.

If you aren't on the offensive, and you haven't set yourself up for a strong defense, then there isn't much you can do. You lost by allowing your opponent the luxury of not having to respond to your attacks.

[Bummer_Duck]

Graeme Dice said:
A large army can deal with a dozen ghost riders, as dealing with them is no different than dealing with any Ermorian army.

Sure it is. You can raid with ghost riders, then take the province with a scout. The size army you need to defend against this is a bit larger than most nations can afford for all their uncastled provinces. So, if you really wanted to try using the more expensive better def forts, your screwed.

If you aren't on the offensive, and you haven't set yourself up for a strong defense, then there isn't much you can do. You lost by allowing your opponent the luxury of not having to respond to your attacks.

Errr...define strong defense! 1 GR can eliminate +25 PD or more. Which is truly absurd IMO, for how expensive 25 PD costs (325 gold?). That far out weighs the what, 5 gem cost? Someone was equating 6 gems to be equal to 100 gold cost...

Let's not even talk about the costs associated with parking defense armies all over the place for the sole purpose of defending against this type of attack.

I am now firmly entrenched in the "Nerf the GR" camp. I could be talked over to the "Buff the other non-death distant summoning/attack" camp. After playing around with CoW/CoW, I'm not impressed. Even 2 castings will lose to a semi-high PD.

As it stands it looks like from now on I will always make sure I have access to death mages, and always select spamable castles types.