More Tien Chi !

Bummer_Duck · #1 May 25th, 2005, 01:14 AM

Hi

I thought I saw a post about a specific mod for Tien Chi...but I can't seem to find it. All I can dig up is a replacement orc nation for Tien chi, a japanese feudal mod, and black Moon. Perhaps I was mistaken? or is there a mod out there?

On the same topic, I understand Tien Chi sentiment is that it is a weak nation, even the SA variant. So, if it is that bad, why hasn't it been altered by Illwinter? It could really use Longbow men...

quantum_mechani · #2 May 25th, 2005, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Bummer_Duck said:
Hi

I thought I saw a post about a specific mod for Tien Chi...but I can't seem to find it. All I can dig up is a replacement orc nation for Tien chi, a japanese feudal mod, and black Moon. Perhaps I was mistaken? or is there a mod out there?

Probably not what you are looking for, but I have a mod improving barbarian kings at Arryn's site.

PDF · #3 May 25th, 2005, 09:28 AM

About TC weakness : even with LBowmen basic TC and BK would be weak, because of their limited and bad mages...

Olive · #4 May 25th, 2005, 11:02 AM

A cool mod for BK may be a nation with only mounted units (included mages).

Bummer_Duck · #5 May 25th, 2005, 11:47 AM

Quote:

quantum_mechani said:

Probably not what you are looking for, but I have a mod improving barbarian kings at Arryn's site.

[/quote]

Oh, is that the "Quantum Barbarians mod"? I saw that, but didn't put the 2 together...Might be nice if there was something there that explained it was for TC Barbarian Kings.

Not exactly what I was looking for, but I'll check it out.

Thanks!

Endoperez · #6 May 25th, 2005, 01:43 PM

There is Japan-inspired nation (Ashikaga), that replaces Vanheim, I think. When it came out, there was some Tien Chi mod that was suppposed to bring out Mythical China of the same era. It was Kami, I think. It wasn't very balanced. It had some interesting ideas, like Shrines as linked-random holy magical personification of something or other, with four swordsmen carrying and guarding it. It also had Chinese dragons as mages, but they weren't priced for their combat-worthyness and one could just sweep the world with them as SCs.

Ironhawk · #7 May 25th, 2005, 04:30 PM

I thought the problem with Tien Chi was the double whammy of so-so mages and enforced bad scales

Bummer_Duck · #8 May 25th, 2005, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Ironhawk said:
I thought the problem with Tien Chi was the double whammy of so-so mages and enforced bad scales

I've been playing around with SA. The bad scales ain't to bad considering that the DOHF/DOHR's have no maintenence (I think) and the mages are sacred. Also, in my tests it is very easy to find most magic sites with a MOTFE in a random of death. One mage can search 6 areas of level 1, and holy 2. I believe the vast majority of sites are level 1, aren't they? Sure seems that way... Anyway, it seems that if you can survive the inevitable initial onslaught, summons may make up for some of the deficiences...

The biggest issue I haven't been able to crack is bootstrapping a couple of decent armies to take indies fast. The only other nation I have played, Vanheim, is laughably easier. In my last MP game, I was able to take 10 provinces in 10 turns, and they were very tough provinces (talking high pop, lots of HI, HC, Knights, etc).

My best SA testbed so far, I was able to grab 15 provinces by turn 20. BUT, I started in a *very* poor area, with most provinces having less than 10 gold inc. Subseqently, the indy armies were small, even at the standard str of 6. For kicks, I used one off the armies I had been expanding with to attack what I would consider a 'normal' indy with HI and HC on turn 22. I lost everything. I 'know' one of my Van armies would have defeated the same opponet handily.

PvK · #9 May 25th, 2005, 08:37 PM

I don't think standard TC needs longbows. They have a very nice array of light and heavy composite bow archers and crossbowmen. Maybe if all their troops were cheaper, it might help a little.

PvK

TheSelfishGene · #10 May 27th, 2005, 10:13 PM

Tien Chi vanilla can do alright in the early game if you can stomach taking some Productivity scales. Like Arco or Pythium they need time to build an effective standard army, and time is (it seems) the commodity in shortest supply in Dom2. A Crossbow front screened by Imperial Spearmen does quite well against basically everything - Composite Bowmen only work better against Barbs and Blowpipe provinces. If you can throw in some of their great cheap cavalry as a flanking force. Build the cheaper Pikemen if your expecting a Knight province to soak up the lances (although militia, if available, work even better obviously).

I like to take a Dragon with Tien Chi, as its somewhat thematic and gives you a way to knock out Indies reliably in the early game as well as be able to cast the occasional global, and not too expensive; and Tien Chi are the only other nation that has a chance of getting a healer naturally so you need not lose the casting ability of the Dragon permanently to bad luck. Natas are better overall but take longer (imo) to get up to speed. Fire Dragons can be taking Indies from the moment they research Fire Shield.