What Traits / Tactics are considered cheap/cheats?

Xorkh · #1 July 21st, 2005, 07:18 PM

I just started playing SEIV again after buying it, quickly trying it out and shelving it a few years ago. This game is very big and can get somewhat overwhelming for a newcomer. Anyways, I've read some of the newbie FAQ and just finished getting owned by the AI. I'm thinking of making a new empire and I would like to get some perspective on some traits / tactics that I've read that seem a little cheap. I'm thinking of someday doing multiplayer and I don't want to pickup any bad habits.

Min-Maxing:
Is this allowed in multiplayer games and how is it considered gamely? I personally don't see anything wrong with it because your handicapping some aspects of the game while boosting others.

Ancient Race:
This reminds of some very popular cheat codes with starcraft

, Seeing the entire map gives a huge bonus early on by colonizing the best planets, knowing where all the ruins are and guessing where enemy home worlds are. I personally don't like this because tends to spoil the game somewhat, but I'm keeping my options open.

Deeply Religious:
I heard that this trait is actually not allowed in some games because of the talisman, is this true? The idea of 100% chance to hit seems a pretty cheesy to me but I really like a few of the facilities. Besides the idea of a Heavy Mount + Organic Weapon (enveloping acid) + talisman seems very enticing. Being able to do 300 damage every 2 turns at a range of 8 for only 80kt space (next lowest is 120kt I think) and chance to hit of 100% ... its getting hard to say no. =)

Also are there any tactics / traits I should avoid?

Thanks in advance.
Xorkh

Fyron · #2 July 21st, 2005, 08:26 PM

In no particular order, these are most of the tactics that some might consider gamey or cheap:

http://www.spaceempires.net/home/content-36.html

And some min-maxing info:

http://www.spaceempires.net/home/content-1.html

Note that some people consider lowering happiness down to 80 or 50 for some more points, but I do not personally care for that...

douglas · #3 July 21st, 2005, 08:34 PM

Min-Maxing is ubiquitous in competitive games on PBW. A few games use a balance mod, I think it's PVK's, that changes the limits and costs so there aren't any no-brainers any more.

Opinion is divided on whether Ancient Race is actually worth the cost. Very few games have any special rulings concerning it.

Deeply Religious is quite frequently banned because of the Talisman. I would consider paying 1500 points in some games for Nature Shrines alone. Add the Talisman, and the balanced cost of the trait shoots up to 4000 or 5000 imo.

Intelligence is sometimes banned because it's usually just a waste of effort, and when it is effective it's usually just another advantage for the guy that's already winning.

Technology trading is sometimes banned because it unbalances the game, especially with trading colonization techs.

Atrocities · #4 July 21st, 2005, 08:36 PM

The most natorious are mining your allies homeworld and warp points then declaring war on them.

But here are a few suggestions.

E.R.A.S.E/
Empire Is Going To War
Addicted To SEIV
Red NeckEmperor
SEIV Bumper Stickers
You Might Be an Idiot Emperor

Xorkh · #5 July 22nd, 2005, 03:02 PM

Thanks for the help guys.

I've decided to stay away from the religious trait altogether, it seems absurdly overpowered especially if the resource % bonus from the shrines stacks with the central and system resource computers. Add in a mid game 100% chance to hit component (as well as other shrines) and you got yourself a iddqd doom cheat (imo).

So far, I'm leaning towards a min-maxed race with a merchants culture, standard build except with 115% maintenance instead of 110% and organic technology. In the first game I played, maintenance costs pretty much crippled me. Only other option would be berserker culture, 110 main, and organic + ancient race, with other stats min-maxed accordingly.

Also I'm not sure what how the aggressive/defensive characteristics work, do they add to defense / chance to hit, or actual damage done / taken? And is the 10% extra bonus for a total of 130% really worth it?

Thanks,
Xorkh

Ed Kolis · #6 July 22nd, 2005, 03:23 PM

The shrines' bonus does not stack with the system robotoid factories, but it does with the planetary ones, since the shrines uses the same ability as the system robotoid factories.

High maintenance reduction can be an exploit as well; I guess I'm surprised it's not on that list as combined with crystalline it can lead to practically maintenance free ships...

The aggressiveness and defensiveness affect your chance to hit and be hit, and they are quite powerful traits. Consider a race with 130% defensiveness going up against a race with 100% defensiveness. At range 1 there is a 90% chance to hit (100% base to-hit minus 10% for the distance). However, the race with 130% defensiveness will only get hit 60% of the time, or 2/3 as often, as the race with 100% defensiveness! The discrepancy gets worse as you go out to farther ranges, say range 7, where the to-hit chance is 30%; then the 130% defensiveness race would never get hit at all were it not for the game's 1% minimum to-hit chance. That's a 30 to 1 ratio of hit chances!

Strategia_In_Ultima · #7 July 22nd, 2005, 04:34 PM

Talismans = everybody picking on you just to make sure you can't use it anymore. (That is, I would imagine this would/could happen.) In stock it is waaaay underpriced.

I personally consider taking organic and crystalline (in stock) to be a bad thing - except when fighting only AIs of course

Organic Armors can repair the Crystalline Armors as well, and since the Crystallines generate shields with each non-armor-skipping hit, well..... Also, using the specialized weapons from each type (especially Shard Cannon and Crystalline Torpedo (in the early game)) while protecting your ships with this deadly mix of armors makes for the fact that your ships fight like they're a few hundred kT larger.

Side note: When facing an opponent which uses the aforementioned "dirty" tactic, simply make the Null-Space Cannon your primary weapon and place a lot of shields and no armor on your ships, and watch his ships die like flies.....

Ed Kolis · #8 July 22nd, 2005, 04:44 PM

Um, I thought organic armors only regenerated other organic armors, since they're the only armor which has the regeneration ability...

narf poit chez BOOM · #9 July 22nd, 2005, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Xorkh said:
Thanks for the help guys.

I've decided to stay away from the religious trait altogether, it seems absurdly overpowered especially if the resource % bonus from the shrines stacks with the central and system resource computers. Add in a mid game 100% chance to hit component (as well as other shrines) and you got yourself a iddqd doom cheat (imo).

So far, I'm leaning towards a min-maxed race with a merchants culture, standard build except with 115% maintenance instead of 110% and organic technology. In the first game I played, maintenance costs pretty much crippled me. Only other option would be berserker culture, 110 main, and organic + ancient race, with other stats min-maxed accordingly.

Also I'm not sure what how the aggressive/defensive characteristics work, do they add to defense / chance to hit, or actual damage done / taken? And is the 10% extra bonus for a total of 130% really worth it?

Thanks,
Xorkh

So...How long till you charge up the hill?

Randallw · #10 July 22nd, 2005, 10:50 PM

There are a few of those tactics I wouldn't call cheating. I mean what's wrong with emergency building. Also placing your ships over the enemy planet before attacking to avoid mines seems similar to Germanys placing a battlecruiser in Danzig harbour (supposedly on a good will visit)so as to bombard it's defenses.