SC's vs Thugs

[shovah]

a model like an airqueen/king of the world/doom horror is usually automatically considered and sc equiped or not, then some things such as the doom horrors when well equiped become uber scs

[Endoperez]

I think the line goes in survivability. Prot is one side, hits another, def yet one more. Maybe two of those three, and at least five defensive/survivability-enchancing abilities (, immunity/high resistance to an element, air shield, ethereality, luck, regeneration/life drain) and at least one way of reliably getting rid of the enemies (damage shield or aura, effective attacks, Fear rating, trample; possibly a battle-wide spell, but that might be in its own category, or at least not cost-effective as fatique is yet another SC-killer).

[shovah]

a lucky etheral astral shielded regenerating reinvigorated golem with the unquenqed sword and soulstone of the wolves is fun, very hard to kill, deadly, and while wolves attack people they catch fire so 2 free battlefield wide spells per fight is fun

[Tom_Scudder]

You left out astral weapon, I b'lieve.

[RonD]

the reason there is no line is because it makes no difference. Your unit is what it is. Your golem will not become more effective just because you decide to call it an SC rather than a thug

[shovah]

Tom_Scudder said:
You left out astral weapon, I b'lieve.

left it out on purpose because unless fighting something very big his strength+the 16 or so ap damage is enough

[Oversway]

One person mentioned the 3 stats (Prot/Attack/Def). Is that where that line is drawn, at statistical markers? Does Hitpoints play a factor at all? Are there certain effects that must be present?

Yeah, sorry, hitpoints are important as well. I would also say you need some way to avoid fatigue - like reinvigoration or life drain or 0 enc. Or a combination.

There is no easy rule to decide what is and SC vs. Thug. Everyone has their own opinion.

[Vicious Love]

Boron said:
First i didn't want to sound know-it-all, i hope you didn't get this intention from my post .

Not at all. Erm... sorry I gave the impression that I got that impression, I guess.

I am personally no big fan of SCs. Problem is that you never can't design your SC to survive all possible threats.

Well, yeah. Thugs are always expendable, SCs... not so much. Especially since a true SC often calls for a unique artifact or two. I think that's another loose guideline for drawing the fuzzy line between thug and SC.
I don't really like SCs either, unless I know precisely what sort of opposition I'll be facing. Still, if you've gone to the trouble of securing some of the more powerful unique artifacts, you owe it to yourself to give them the most survivable chassis you can find.

I said Arlabests, not X-bows . An Arlabest does 17 ap damage, a X-bow only 10.

14 in the unmodded game, but that extra 4 AP damage is still pretty significant.
So even with a robe of invulnerability the Arlabest should do some damage.

But what's more important and that makes me normally rather dislike SCs: The enemy will also have mage support or thugs.
If the enemy has a combination of high damage troops and anti-SC mages you can't protect vs. everything.

Not always true. No SC is utterly indestructible, all can be stalled until turn 50, all can be easily paralyzed with Petrify and, yes, all are tremendously susceptible to Drain Life. Those two spells aside, though, there are still SCs that are virtually immune to lower-end mages and unspecialized, general-purpose thugs, save in vast numbers.
With the right chassis and the right combination of unique artifacts, you can field a regenerating, lifedraining, self-reinvigorating, elemental-immune, magic-resistant monstrosity. There will still be counters, but your opponent will have to put some thought into them in order to be cost-effective.

[shovah]

a fun tactic is to get a load of flying sc's in one place as if massing for an attack then when the enemy brings over his anti sc mages shoot right past them

[Valandil]

Banefire? Gifts From Heaven? 72 quickened arch seraphs casting lightening bolt?

If you live through these (except for the seraphs... then you are an sc. Otherwise, you are dead and it doesn't matter.

Seriously, the line between a thug and an sc is so blurred as to be meaningless. The best rule I've found is that if it kills armies then it is good, otherwise, don't use it.