newbie questions (lots) - mid/late game logistics

[Neophyte]

Ok, I've had Dom II for about a year, but haven't played too much. I've decided that I like Arco, and have experimented with several pretenders using the Talis map.

I think I'm happy with Phoenix, F4A4D4, T1P1-G1F2M1, Dom 4 with fortress. This gives me a decent bless force (even just CotH is a good centerpiece unit) as well as a decent friendly dominion solo mage-pretender. I haven't done much with mercenary forces. Using this pretender I just won my first game against normal AI Man on Talis using indies 9 and sites 75.

I was able to get a vine ogre factory reasonably close to Man's main territory (6 VO/turn 2 turns with a 2 start move cmdr away). One of my conceptual issues is logistics - if everyone is going to be attacking you, where should you set up your bigger summon mages - for things like Drakes it would be hard to move them from capital to the front?

Or should the stay at home mages be strict researchers and you make labs on the front to summon those drake type units?

Should you empower your summon mystics to S3 for teleport?

Does teleport move the mage and associated troops, or just the mage (my manual has teleported)?

Another logistical question - against multiple opponents, how many armies (army meaning a main force group of cmdr's and troops) should one have per front (i.e. moving toward any given enemy)?

How many fronts do people tend to have at a time?

Granted this is very subjective, but when do you want to go from initial expansion to border defense and back to expansion?

I'm intrigued by the large Faerun map, but should probably use Orania to learn larger map issues. I tried some searches and found lots of god\od stuff, but maybe I didn't search correctly.

Thank's!

[Wish]

you need s5 or n5 for total army teleportation (unless both cities have a lab) either through fairy trod (n), astral travel(s) or gateway(s with two labs, I think this one is 4S)

additionally you can make a few items worthwhile - the flying ship, or the gatestone.

however the simplest solution is to utilize only those summons that can travel fast enough to reach the front lines efficiently. I think most people don't waste their gems on drakes.

[Saxon]

Since you are playing against the AI, do not forget to keep the flow of regular armies marching towards the boarders. I have found that when I focus my forces, the AI creates lots of small armies that attack several provinces a turn. The AI armies are usually regular troops as well.

The high level summons are impressively powerful, but I find that I still need the grunts to hold the territory the powerful units take. Once the powerful army smashes the main AI army on a big map, you still need to take over a lot of provinces. Good old fashioned troops with a spell caster buffing them will handle PD and the scattered armies that the AI throws at you. How big and how many armies will depend on what the AI is doing. You need to be big enough to destroy the small armies and numerous enough to run them down.

Some spells can help in this regard. Seeking Arrow will often kill a commander and freeze a small army, giving you more time to deal with it. Also, where possible, surround and then destroy, so the retreating troops do not fight another day. This part of the game is not glorious battles with amazing spells. It is cleaning up the remnants of the AI’s power with your second class troops, so your really powerful units can stay on the rampage. It can be challenging to do well, as you want to spend as little as possible on this, but if you short them and lose a battle, you have to stop your main plan to clean up the bush fires.

Arco can create a dangerous teleporting death squad, but it is like the American helicopters in Vietnam. You can win the battle, but you need to hold the ground after you leave. I suggest using the summons to win the battles and the regular troops to hold the ground.

Recognizing that it won’t help with your current game, I would like to mention Mechanical Militia related to big maps. Once that global is up, one gold piece gets you a very solid defense everywhere. I have found it very helpful on end games on big maps, as you focus on destroying the enemy and do no have to worry about holding what you take. It is also a very nice compliment when you are countering an attacking army with a real army of your own, as you get a solid, non-routable set of troops.

[Neophyte]

Thank's for these suggestions. I've started an Orania game with the above pretender against (all normal AI) Manchaka, TC, Man, Mictlan, Abyssinia, Jotenheim, Caelum and C'Tis. It's now turn 37, and I've been involved in a two front war against Manchaka and C'Tis. Abyssinia is neighboring the previous C'Tis territory, but hostilities have not been initiated. I killed C'Tis about 3 turns ago, but both main forces are pretty well spent. They're not about to collapse in a strong wind or anything, but I'm in the regroup and rebuild stage.

One thing I've learned about Arco is that you really need to rely on special / summonable sacred troops for a blessing plan.

I also think that I expanded too fast. Specifically, I got a bit overexcited when my scout learned where C'Tis was. Based on past less than favorable experiences with C'Tis I sent my main force on the way. Halfway to C'Tis, Manchaka showed up at my doorstep - two provinces away from starting location!! So I quickly threw together a second army and went after them. Right now I'm camped on their doorstep (two provinces from Manchaka) and am holding my position (set up a Fort, Temple and Lab) but just don't feel like I have the oomph needed to close just yet.

I also have a small force that I am keeping close to home for indy expansion. I just have that feeling similar to when you look at your Risk board and know that if the other guy gets lucky with the dice the game might be over. The wrong way.

The major lessons learned:

CotH are good bless troops for beginning game, but are not easily replenishable. Solutions - mix 50 / 50 CotH and hyspatist as the core troop with some expendable infantry tossed in - this may mean to recruit an extra priestess and recruit vinemen earlier. Learn what sacred troops are available as summons. The answer to this appears to be - not many. Otherwise one must rely on luck for special sites with which to replenish holy troops.

I think that it would be best to always have one main force sized army close to home (within 2 - 3 provinces). And until two main forces are active, one shouldn't go forth looking for trouble.

This is painful for me to admit, but even with Arco, it might be good to have more than the starting scout unit out and about looking for where the enemy will come from. If I can recruit scouts from one of the first few independant provinces, perhaps I should aim to have 4 or so fairly quickly.

I should start making Vinemen as soon as I have +2 N gems coming in.


Thank's for the suggestion of Mech. Militia. I like making items (it's one of Arco's strengths imho) so getting to Const 9 won't be too far out of the way.

[shovah]

Another option you might like to try with arco is an e10 cyclops, it makes your CotH armies very resilent and lets you cast forge of the ancients (amazing with arco's mystics) aswell as providing a great sc (give him 2 main gauches of parrying and send him out).

If you forge shrouds of the battlesaints (5 astral gems i think) for your mages they get +5 reinvig. He can cast some nice spells (earthblood well, forge of the ancients, kings of earth, trolls, earth attack, iron dragon ect) and can forge very nice items.
Try this:
Cyclops with 10 earth
Fortress
5 Dominion
1 turmoil, 1 heat, 1 fortune and 2 magic

should allow you to rush up construction fairly quickly then get some battle magic for your mages. Your cyclops has 30 prot and amazing health so is practically invunerable (once you give him 2 main gauches and a ring of regen he rocks). If you were going for a semi-bless strat you could have done alot better, w9+f/e9 CotH are amazing.

[Ironhawk]

Neophyte said:
Ok, I've had Dom II for about a year, but haven't played too much. I've decided that I like Arco, and have experimented with several pretenders using the Talis map.

I think I'm happy with Phoenix, F4A4D4, T1P1-G1F2M1, Dom 4 with fortress. This gives me a decent bless force (even just CotH is a good centerpiece unit) as well as a decent friendly dominion solo mage-pretender. I haven't done much with mercenary forces. Using this pretender I just won my first game against normal AI Man on Talis using indies 9 and sites 75.

I was able to get a vine ogre factory reasonably close to Man's main territory (6 VO/turn 2 turns with a 2 start move cmdr away). One of my conceptual issues is logistics - if everyone is going to be attacking you, where should you set up your bigger summon mages - for things like Drakes it would be hard to move them from capital to the front?

Or should the stay at home mages be strict researchers and you make labs on the front to summon those drake type units?

Should you empower your summon mystics to S3 for teleport?

Does teleport move the mage and associated troops, or just the mage (my manual has teleported)?

Another logistical question - against multiple opponents, how many armies (army meaning a main force group of cmdr's and troops) should one have per front (i.e. moving toward any given enemy)?

How many fronts do people tend to have at a time?

Granted this is very subjective, but when do you want to go from initial expansion to border defense and back to expansion?

I'm intrigued by the large Faerun map, but should probably use Orania to learn larger map issues. I tried some searches and found lots of god\od stuff, but maybe I didn't search correctly.

Thank's!

Arco is a funny choice for a bless strategy. Thier blessable troops arent too great and they are all capitol only. You might have more luck by switching to a more powerful solo-mage pretender config, or over to an SC type config and exploit Arco's excellent forging abilities to kit it out with all the nice items.

1) Regarding the location of summon factories. Mages are very easy to move (via flying shoes), whereas most mass-production summons are not. So, what you want to do is have a base close to your front but not in direct danger, then build a lab there and fly in (or teleport in the case of Arco) all your mages and produce from there.

2) Do not empower any Arco mages for teleport. Forge Starshine Skullcaps and other Astral booster items to increase thier astral magic. Then trade them b/w mages when they need to teleport or cast some other interesting ritual.

3) Teleport moves only the mage. Gateway (i think?) moves the mage and his troops b/w two labs. And.. Astral Travel (?) moves the mage and his troops anywhere.

4) I usually have only 1-2 major armies per front. But it all depends on the map and how much money you have. If you have the money and the room? Deploy more!

5) Against the AI I usually have 2-3 fronts. Finish your wars quickly!

[Ironhawk]

shovah said:
Cyclops with 10 earth
Fortress
5 Dominion
1 turmoil, 1 heat, 1 fortune and 2 magic

should allow you to rush up construction fairly quickly then get some battle magic for your mages. Your cyclops has 30 prot and amazing health so is practically invunerable (once you give him 2 main gauches and a ring of regen he rocks). If you were going for a semi-bless strat you could have done alot better, w9+f/e9 CotH are amazing.

Why would you give a cyclops 2 maingauches? Defense is great but the better choice is a shield with some interesting effect - like a Fireshield. Or if you cant do that a Blind or Tanglevine shield. Then just give him a sword of quickness if you are intent on getting 2 attacks.

[shovah]

Because it adds survivability, only needs const 2, dosnt rely on your mages randoms (as he can forge them personally) and gives him 2 attacks. Another (better imo) option fo indy smashing is boots of the behemoth (can forge as soon as you have gems) and thats it. 30 prot and high health (for me atleast) allowed him to crush level 9 indies without getting a single affliction (even vrs knights, i would avoid barbarians, crossbows and maybe knights though).