OT: Counter-Terrorism is a Farce

[Randallw]

Not just the western media. I often wonder when they say the terorists have a new statement on Al Jazeera why they allow them to show it then. Maybe Al Jazeera is related to Al Qaida, they both start with Al (This is a joke. I tried to learn Arabic once. Al is the equivalent of A/The. Other than that I just know the rules for vowels)

Actually has anyone heard the Billy Connolly joke. He points out the terorists use Stanley knives (Box cutters) and they all come from places ending in Stan. Thats who we should be after. Stan. Stan BinLaden.

[Glyn]

Which would you rather have freedom or the illusion of safety?


How do flees kill a horse? They bite it until it dies of exhaustion from slapping, stomping, and kicking at the pest.

The 9/11 terror attack killed less than 3000 people. About 40,000 are killed yearly in car accidents in the US.


Blowing up hometowns of terrorist wouldn’t work. Wasn’t London the hometown to at lest one of the London transit bombers?

[Raapys]

Yah, the question is how much of our freedom we're willing to sacrifice for an increase in the chance of stopping the rare terrorist attack. Having my country turned into a police state with surveillance everywhere is unacceptable for me, but that is the way it's heading. If we continue in this direction then the terrorists have already won. It's not about killing people, it's about spreading terror, obviously, and we've long since taken the bait.

[Renegade 13]

dogscoff said:

Yeah, because that policy has really worked for the Isrealis. They've been bulldozing entire towns in resonse to terrorist action for years, and that hasn't escalated the hatred and inspired more terrorists at all. No. Not at all. Not one.

(In case you missed it, that was sarcasm.)

It'd be hard to miss that sarcasm, it was kinda like being whacked in the head with a board labelled "sarcasm" . My "suggestions" in the original post weren't really intended to be exact replicas of what I actually want done. If I was president of the US, it's not what I'd want to have done. The post was more intended to draw attention to alternatives, and stimulate conversation on those possibilities and the pros and cons of said policies. What I stated was a possibility, albeit an extreme one. It's not how I actually think we should deal with the so-called "terrorist threat".

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Can't always tell over the internet.

[Atrocities]

To the people who seemingly hate Israel and enjoy blaming them, please answer my questions if you would be so kind. Tell me where I am going wrong here. To me it seems that your picking on Israel just for the sake of doing so. I fail to see why some, mostly anti-jewish racists blame Israel for all the problems in that region. I don't see the Israel blowing up bus loads of kids, or markets full of people. The last time I looked it wasn't an Israel luanching rockets into Isreal or an Israel strapping a suicide pack on and blowing up a check point and detonating a car bomb. Forgive me for saying this but I don't recall ever reading about or hearing of an Israel beheading inocent people or hijacking planes, flying planes into the ground, buildings, or ordering them to land in terrorist supportive nations and then executing inocent people to get fuel.

No if your going to blame Israel for all the problems in the middle east, then why not just say what you really think, that Hitler should have killed them all when he got the chance and that the Arabs are Gods chosen people to finish what Hitler failed too do. Just be honest, your a racist and enjoy blaming the victim for when the victim fights back against his attacker and or assualter. Then again I could be really off base here and in need of being corrected. The way I am seeing it is that most of the people who are against israel just hate jews and want to see them destroyed. To me that is racisim and it is wrong.

[Renegade 13]

Atrocities said:
To the people who seemingly hate Israel and enjoy blaming them, please answer my questions if you would be so kind. Tell me where I am going wrong here. To me it seems that your picking on Israel just for the sake of doing so. I fail to see why some, mostly anti-jewish racists blame Israel for all the problems in that region. I don't see the Israel blowing up bus loads of kids, or markets full of people. The last time I looked it wasn't an Israel luanching rockets into Isreal or an Israel strapping a suicide pack on and blowing up a check point and detonating a car bomb. Forgive me for saying this but I don't recall ever reading about or hearing of an Israel beheading inocent people or hijacking planes, flying planes into the ground, buildings, or ordering them to land in terrorist supportive nations and then executing inocent people to get fuel.

No if your going to blame Israel for all the problems in the middle east, then why not just say what you really think, that Hitler should have killed them all when he got the chance and that the Arabs are Gods chosen people to finish what Hitler failed too do. Just be honest, your a racist and enjoy blaming the victim for when the victim fights back against his attacker and or assualter. Then again I could be really off base here and in need of being corrected. The way I am seeing it is that most of the people who are against israel just hate jews and want to see them destroyed. To me that is racisim and it is wrong.

In their latest conflict, Israel and Hezbollah both acted like terrorist groups. Hezbollah kidnapped soldiers, launched rockets at civilians, etc. Everyone has to admit that those are terrorist actions.

However, look at what Israel did. Israel didn't launch rockets, no. Instead, they dropped bombs. They blew up hospitals for fu**s sake! They destroyed bridges, roads, power plants, hospitals, everything. Just how many Lebanese civilians, as well as the civilians of other nations (Canadians and Americans even) did Israel kill? Close to a thousand?

They're both terrorist organizations, the only difference is that one is supported materially and politically by the US, and is therefore portrayed as the "good guys" in American media.

There were no good guys in the last round of fighting. No one had the ideological high ground.

[Atrocities]

However, look at what Israel did. Israel didn't launch rockets, no. Instead, they dropped bombs. They blew up hospitals for fu**s sake!

Um, Hezbollah attacked them by committing a terrorist act. They have every right to respond. Those roads, bridges, and buildings that were bombed were destroyed in order to help slow the rearming and escape of Hezbollah terrorists. In war, bridge, roads, rails, cars, and buildings are often destroyed dilibrately. It is not Israel's fault that the terroristed used hospitals as bases of operations thus putting inocent, and not so inocent, Lebanese in harms way. In war people die, that is fact. Choosing a side souly because you hate jews is simply wrong.

Israel is a soverign state, a nation, Hezbollah is neither a state nor a nation, they are a terroristic military force answerable not to the Lebanese, but to the Sirans and Iranians.

And honestly, who the hell are you, who the hell are we, to judge Israel? Do you live there? Have you lived there? You, and indeed all of us, do not know anything about what it is like to live in that region and therefor have no right too pass judgement on those who live there. Hezbollah attacked and drew first blood. If I am not mistaken, that is an act of war is it not? And I promis you, since they got away with what they did, they will rearm and do it all over again.

And will you be their to critize Israel when they respond?

There were no good guys in the last round of fighting. No one had the ideological high ground.

I agree.

[dogscoff]

Normally we see pretty well eye to eye AT, I'm really disappointed that I have to come down on you like this, but you are out of line.

To the people who seemingly hate Israel and enjoy blaming them, please answer my questions if you would be so kind. Tell me where I am going wrong here. To me it seems that your picking on Israel just for the sake of doing so. I fail to see why some, mostly anti-jewish racists blame Israel for all the problems in that region.

There's a big gap between "I disagree with the way Israel handles its foreign policy" and "I hate all jews". Don't call people racists without cause, it only pisses them off and makes you look stupid.

I don't see the Israel blowing up bus loads of kids, or markets full of people.

Then you're not looking. The Israelis have been known to destroy entire towns in response for terrorist bombings. And no, before you start, this doesn't mean I am a supporter of terrorism or a Nazi or anything like that. I abhor terrorists, but I also abhor Israel's brutality. They have done as much to escalate the conflict as anyone else. Both sides are guilty.

{loads of offensive, reactionary flamebait snipped}...say what you really think, that Hitler should have killed them all...

I hereby invoke Godwin's law. You lose.

Just be honest, your a racist

No, you be honest. You are an idiot who finds it easier to call anyone who disagrees with you 'Hitler' than to look at the shades of grey in-between the two extremes of the debate. It's that kind of polarised, extremist, de-humanising thinking in the west, in Israel and in the islamic extremists that has caused all this [censored] in the first place.

And honestly, who the hell are you, who the hell are we, to judge Israel? Do you live there? Have you lived there? ... have no right too pass judgement on those who live there

OK, fair enough so far, but then you go on to say...

Hezbollah attacked and drew first blood. If I am not mistaken, that is an act of war is it not? And I promis you, since they got away with what they did, they will rearm and do it all over again.

Aren't you doing here to Hezbollah exactly what you just criticised others for doing to Israel? Hypocrisy much?

EDIT: Fixed formatting, that's all.

[Atrocities]

I am very dissapointed in you dogscoff. I feel that I am entitled to my opinion, and my comment were a generalized statement designed to promote honest discussion, based in part on ligitimate opinions, points of view, and a logical conclusions relating to racism. Since my statements were generalized and not directed at any one personally, I must surrender to the fact that in any debate people get angry and regrettably sometimes resort to flaming. I believe that you could have made your counter points without personal insults. I would have preferred that you would had offer proof to support your statements rather than flaming me, however you didn't, and I feel that the personal attack toward me was unwarrented. You make several good points to which I would like to respond.

There's a big gap between "I disagree with the way Israel handles its foreign policy" and "I hate all jews". Don't call people racists without cause, it only pisses them off and makes you look stupid.

While I agree with your statement about "big gaps" I have to point out that I was specifically refering to people who do hate all jews in general and that their position is one of racism. If that pisses them off, then they are the ones who look stupid because racism in general is indeed stupid.

Then you're not looking. The Israelis have been known to destroy entire towns in response for terrorist bombings. And no, before you start, this doesn't mean I am a supporter of terrorism or a Nazi or anything like that. I abhor terrorists, but I also abhor Israel's brutality. They have done as much to escalate the conflict as anyone else. Both sides are guilty

Can I ask you if there is any proof that Israel dilibrately used terrorist bombs to blow up school buses and markets filled with women, children, and inocent people? Bulldozing a building that has been repeatedly used by terrorists is not an act of terroism, it is an act of defense. I would like to point out that bulldozing a building or leveling several buildings, is not brutality when it is in response to terrorist attacks that have injured and killed inocent civilans. While both sides are pretty much fed up with each other, this does not give them each a moral high ground. I agree, they are both to blame for the escalation in violence and are both to blame for not working together to resolve their differance. Israel could have recognized the new Palistenian (sp) government and continued to give them the money owed, something that might have averted these most recent acts of anger on both sides. While the new government of Palistine and Lebenon could have maintained better control over their terrorist militias and prevented the kidnappings.

No, you be honest. You are an idiot who finds it easier to call anyone who disagrees with you 'Hitler' than to look at the shades of grey in-between the two extremes of the debate. It's that kind of polarised, extremist, de-humanising thinking in the west, in Israel and in the islamic extremists that has caused all this [censored] in the first place.

I did not call any one Hitler. Please get your facts strait before flaming me.

One of those shades of grey that you spoke of is the shade that is racist. There is no denying that racism is playing a part here. The Arabs absolutely hate the jews and as stated by the Iranian president, should be wiped out.

Israel did not start terrorism, nor have they resorted to it. So blaming them for terrorism is again something that I feel only a person who lacks the facts would do. Or to be brutally honest, who knows they lack the facts but does it anyways because they hate israel.

While some that hate israel are racists who do wish all jews would die, many people just dislike them and are not racists. They dislike them for whatever reason and often, more than not, blame them for all the woes in the middle east. Often without proof to back up said claims. But hey, that is their right, and they are entitled to their opinions, however, if they are racist against the jews, then they should be honest enough to come out and say so. All because I believe that this is what they should do if they are indeed racist, doesn't make me an "idiot" or "stupid."

Aren't you doing here to Hezbollah exactly what you just criticised others for doing to Israel? Hypocrisy much?

What did I accuse others of doing to Israel?

In general I believe that Hezbollah is a terrorist organization and given their statements and radicalized points of view, it is only logical, and I might add widely agreed upon, that they will attack again because they feel that they got away with it this time. Now I pray that they see the light and don't, but I honestly believe that that they will attack again.

Edit: spelling correction or two.