Problem Saving Games

[DominionsFan]

Arralen said:

CHEATER !!!

I wouldn't say so, in fact just think. Save function like that could help a lot to the newbies, to continue from a given point, because more than likely they are making many mistakes.
Anyways you can backup old savegames, as Endo has mentioned it already, if you want to do that at all costs.

[thejeff]

The counter argument is that a save function makes it harder for a newbie, because they don't have to learn from their mistakes.

Probably it started without a Save because of the emphasis on multiplayer, where a save is useless.

Personally, I prefer it this way. Unlike most FPS or RPG type games, where getting back to a certain point requires repeating the same process over again (and again), losing a game in dominions due to mistakes just means you can start over again with a different set of challenges, even if you set the game up the same way.
But then I'm a nethack fan too.

And you can always copy savegames, if you want the security or just to experiment.
No real need to zip them either, unless you're really short on space. Just copy the file and change the name. Add a turn number or something.

[Gandalf Parker]

The game does have a switch for pre-execute and post-execute before each hosting. You can create a script or batch or desktop shortcut (depending on your system) to automatically copy the game files to another directory before each hosting. That way you have another "game" which will always be your previous turn.

[solops]

Arralen said:

CHEATER !!!


[i]Honestly,
opening up the dominions3/savedgames/*gamename* - folder isn't that hard to do, isn't it? And you should have a ZIP-program (or another packer) installed .. just mark the *nationname*.2h, *nationname*.trn and ftherlnd file and zip them up e.g. into "turn1.zip", and the next turn into "turn2.zip" etc.
That way, you can always decompress any turn you like... . Simply reload the game afterwards.

edit: additonal text .. sry, hit the wrong button...

Cheater? A bit of a bizarre response (?). I replay a lot of games, sometime after 100-200 turns, just to see how things might go if I try something different.. I imagine most people do.

As far as making manual copies, sure, I can do that, even if it is a pain. Doing so constantly disrupts the game and interferes with play flow and enjoyment. But I suspect a LARGE number of players or, more importantly, Potential players would read your note on the mechanics and their eyes would glass over. My kids have already complained about the demo and my wife would not attempt to even understand such a process, but she spends a lot of money on games (and other stuff!) and it is silly to turn such folks and their $$$ away. One of the kids is interested in the game but, again, this issue may keep it off of the Christmas wish list, even if she thinks my full version is “totally cool.”

The whole save and load UI feature is really a no brainer, IMO. Put it in and let people play and have fun!

[Epaminondas]

Arralen said:

CHEATER !!!


[/i]

I guess Arralen is really the resident forum jack ***, and I am not the only new poster who has been greeted with a rude message.

Getting back on topic, I agree with the thread starter fully: It really is inexcusable that a turn-based strategy game at this day and age would not have such a feature.

[Agrajag]

Epaminondas said:

I guess Arralen is really the resident forum jack ***, and I am not the only new poster who has been greeted with a rude message.

Epaminondas, you are the one that completely twisted Arralen's words.
Arralen said "CHEATER !!!" as a joke, and promptly explaing exactly how to "cheat". (and you can tell its a joke because of the explaining directly after it )
I think you are the one being a jack ***, trying to make Arralen look bad.

[Epaminondas]

Agrajag said:

Epaminondas, you are the one that completely twisted Arralen's words.
Arralen said "CHEATER !!!" as a joke, and promptly explaing exactly how to "cheat". (and you can tell its a joke because of the explaining directly after it )
I think you are the one being a jack ***, trying to make Arralen look bad.

What, are you his sidekick or something?

Arralen edited his original post. More important, the response of the original thread starter, proceeding immediately after Arralen's original post, clearly indicates that he too thought Arralen was being a jack ***.

[Agrajag]

Epaminondas said:
What, are you his sidekick or something?

Arralen edited his original post. More important, the response of the original thread starter, proceeding immediately after Arralen's original post, clearly indicates that he too thought Arralen was being a jack ***.

What are you? A Journalist? Constantly twisting people's words to your way of things...

Let me quote a nice little snippet from Arralen's post now, I'll even bold it:

edit: additonal text .. sry, hit the wrong button...

[PDF]

I vaguely remember someone made a DomSave tool a few times ago for Dom2, that did exactly that : copy the old file to a backup directory, rename it with turn number, then launch the game.
It should be obvious to adapt it to Dom3 if we find the initial author

[Peter Ebbesen]

From a user perspective, the way it is handled in Dominions is just plain silly. Dominions 2 was not an "MP only" game and Dominions 3 is even less so. A considerable number of players play singleplayer only or primarily. Thus, not having save game functionality in-game because the game is multiplayer based is a poor choice, since having the ability avaible does not impact multiplayer adversely.

Yes, you can copy files manually by hand if you want to, but that takes considerably longer time than e.g. choosing save, enter filename, hit save button would do, [and given how Dominions 3 ****s up when alt-tabbing, you probably do have to leave the game to make that copy by hand] and as a result it is something you either write your own script to do automatically (requiring code literacy) or, for all practical purposes, don't do at all. Which leaves you in the cold when the game ****s up and corrupts a save file since this on the spot ends your game. It also presents the "irreversible-death" scenario to new players. YES, they learn by irreversible death, as I'm sure some of you will argue, but they learn much more if they after suffering defeat can retrace to an earlier save and retry their approach to see how they could have changed the outcome, than if they just have to say, tough cookies, let me start all over from the very beginning again.

As for the line of player groupthink that goes "the developers don't like people to cheat on random events/battles/whatever by not rolling with the punches"... as any good developer knows, as far as fun goes, the point of a game is for the players to have fun, not the developers (or even worse, the computer), and anybody not wanting to load an older savegame is free to not do so without any lessening of his gaming experience. (Though it is nice when the developers too have fun, even if it is vicious or satirical fun, it should never be the priority)

It is a baffling newbie-unfriendly design choice that is no doubt a legacy of the MP design of the game and which should have been reconsidered a long time ago. Players cannot be assumed to be Nethack-nerds used to that approach or assumed to be happy with an forced ironman-mode.