[OT] More George Lucas bashing.

[Spectarofdeath]

I'm with SJ on this one. Seriously, if you want to wipe out the rebel base, why do you send in troops first? I mean come on, two droids, one jedi, one smuggler, one princess and one farmboy are able to elude hordes (not to mention all the ones they killed) of your soldiers on (probably) the biggest base in the galaxy (which you constructed, why aren't those troops being trained better?!?) And you call for a "Ground invasion".

[Hugh Manatee]

They had the shield generators focused over the base and the weapons platform that could disable a whole ISDII for several minutes. Now logic says you could have immolated the areas around the shield turning the planet into uninhabitable slag with a boiling atmosphere but that would have been a boring plot device and I think vader wanted most of them alive so they HAD to invade the base under the shield.

IMO the AT-AT(elephant) walkers were cool, but just a flawed design, like most of the imperial crap(IE fighters without shields, the shoot here buttons, the blindspot behind a star destroyer ect, they just don't give a crap about the safety of their troops they just want big guns for cheap. I'm thinking that hydraulics are bound to be cheaper then an antigrav nit and may require less power to opperate). For one thing the guns only cover about 180 degrees or less in front of the thing, if they had put a turret on top, maybe a few SAM launchers, guns in the back, a few on the sides, and a few underneath(like the one that drops out of the falcon when they escape tatooine in Ep4) it could be a dam near unnaproachable walking fortress.

They were however covered by the AT-ST(chicken) walkers, so their exposed rears would have been covered save for the retarded marksmanship of the imperial gunners they should have been fine. And they did route the rebels from the base.

[HoneyBadger]

Yeah, Chewie is cool forever (and screw whichever author claims that he "gave his life to save some Jedi brat" nonsense, and screw Lucas for giving the ok on letting someone write that kind of crap). Jarjar does things with goats in hell that, were I to detail them, would get me banned from this forum forever. The guy who played him was twice the actor (and gave twice the performance) that the actors playing Anakin and Amidala were in the movie, though, I will say that much. It's a shame too, because I really like Natalie Portman as an actress. Even Samuel L "Explitive-YOU!" Jackson was a little off in the movies.

Jedi aren't supposed to get married, they're not supposed to have sex, and they play with light-sabres. Yeah, I would too. My take on Mitochondria is that George read or played Parasite Eve and liked the idea so much he stole it.
Apparently, he's a big Japanophile (I am too, so this isn't really George Lucas-bashing in and of itself, it means you dig Japanese things/culture) so that makes sense.

Atleast they didn't totally screw up with Yoda. Yoda's my favorite, and within the boundaries of the bad going on in the movies, they managed to atleast give good Yoda. Ian McDairmid easily gave the best performance in the movies, followed closely by Christopher Lee, Liam Neeson, and Ewan McGregor.

There are bad spots in the movie, and there are good spots. Overall, I think some really skilled editor with plenty of CGI could fix the first three movies into something more than just watchable.

One thing I will say though, Star Wars was fantasy, was intended to be fantasy, remains fantasy. It's just not and never has been science fiction, let alone HARD science fiction. It just dresses up in science fiction's clothes, calls itself "Sheila", and goes to bars to pick up men. And so all the stupid bits that we can look at and say "that's just plain silly" were done for effect, not based on reason.

[Atrocities]

Those damn EWOKS. The Empire was defeated by a bunch of teddy bears!!! Only, and I do mean this, ONLY George Lucas could think of such a STUPID way of defeating the most powerful galatic empire of all time. F**king warrior teddy bears.

[TurinTurambar]

HoneyBadger said:
... My take on Mitochondria is that George read or played Parasite Eve ...

Mitochondria?

TT

[Noble713]

Barnacle Bill said:

Gotta disagree. The very first wrong turn was the Imperial Walkers - the importation of Battletech nonsense where it didn't belong. The big trick to armored warfare is low silhouette, and even in the original Luke's speeder demonstrated a suspention that would be great for a tank (a la "Hammer's Slammers"). All else (armor, weapons, training) being equal, a force of grav tanks taking advantage of terrain is going to wipe out a force of walker tanks sticking up like trees. It's painfully obvious that they did it because Battletech was popular with the comic book crowd about then. However, the point of Battletech was not futuristic armored warfare, but rather translating the medieval Samurai system hi-tech (i.e. not a tank with a crew, but a suit of armor for a noble warrior). That might have fit the Jedi thing, but as portrayed (Stormtrooper battle taxis) it was completely out of place.

Where are you getting your information from? Empire Strikes Back hit theaters in 1980. Battletech was released in 1984. So how could ESB incorporate ideas from something that didn't exist at the time?

The original concept for the Imperial vehicles was a gigantic wheeled APC. You may have recognized them, as they were reused in Ep3 (the HAVw A6 "Turbo Tank" Juggernaught on Kashyyyk). According to Wookiepedia , Lucas got the idea for the AT-AT from War of the Worlds, although their actual movements were modelled after elephants (as already mentioned).

Reading your other arguments, it seems you were looking for a standard, completely cliche plotline. I can't stand movies/books like that, and hopefully I'm not the only one. It's so boring constantly seeing the "good guy" get the girl, the "evil empire" destroyed, and everyone living happily ever after. How about something at least slightly original for a change? Something *not* churned out by 99% of Hollywood?

Films where:
1) the protagonist, or the protagonist's love interest, dies at the *end* of the film, ending everything on a depressing note. (All Quiet on the Western Front, Stalingrad)
2) the good guy experiences something that turns him into a murderous bastard as bad or worse than the "bad guys" (V for Vendetta)
3) There are no good guys, only different shades of bad (Payback, Pitch Black/Chronicles of Riddick).

Or other situations that actually bear some resemblance to actual human experiences, instead of overblown and idealized characters and outcomes.

All of the above is why I really enjoyed Episode III, despite it's numerous failings. It's probably #2 or #3 on my "Fav Star Wars movie" list, with Empire Strikes Back @ #1 for similar reasons. The arrogance of the Jedi comes home to roost in a big way, the protagonist loses his love interest (largely through his own stupidity, can't blame the "evil empire" for that one), his value system is turned upside-down causing him to commit all manner of atrocities, and the cunning, manipulative, power-hungry bastard pulling his strings ascends to the throne (a just reward for being a cunning, manipulative, power-hungry bastard....and a pretty good fighter to boot).

[Atrocities]

I wonder if George Lucas ever dresses up like a Jedi and runs around his house play The Force? What do you think would George be a Jedi or a Sith?

What would George's Jedi name be? How about his Sith name?

Does hey make the swaishing light saber sounds, or does he have one of those super expensive sabers that do all that sound stuff for you?

What color is his sable blade? I think pink perhaps even vivid pink.

[Baron Munchausen]

Atrocities said:
I wonder if George Lucas ever dresses up like a Jedi and runs around his house play The Force? What do you think would George be a Jedi or a Sith?

What would George's Jedi name be? How about his Sith name?

Does hey make the swaishing light saber sounds, or does he have one of those super expensive sabers that do all that sound stuff for you?

What color is his sable blade? I think pink perhaps even vivid pink.

Darth Gona Sooya?

[PvK]

Noble713 said:
... All of the above is why I really enjoyed Episode III, despite it's numerous failings. It's probably #2 or #3 on my "Fav Star Wars movie" list, with Empire Strikes Back @ #1 for similar reasons. The arrogance of the Jedi comes home to roost in a big way, the protagonist loses his love interest (largely through his own stupidity, can't blame the "evil empire" for that one), his value system is turned upside-down causing him to commit all manner of atrocities, and the cunning, manipulative, power-hungry bastard pulling his strings ascends to the throne (a just reward for being a cunning, manipulative, power-hungry bastard....and a pretty good fighter to boot).

Good point. Sadly, that aspect was dramatized SO poorly! Could have been so much better, so easily...