OT: Politics

[DrPraetorious]

Well, okay, what effect does/should politics have on dominions 3?

Disclaimer: I am wasted. Like, european grade wasted, because I didn't have to drive home (I live in NYC.) FREEBIRD! In may parts of this country, you can't get this drunk without being arrested. Why? Because this is a blue state and we love freedom.

So, we ask - what effect did politics have on medieval wars? Especially medieval *religious* wars? How can we work political effects into the game without a major engine rewrite?

Disclaimer: One time in Austin, I got really wasted and puked, not on, but *near* a cop. He got some splatter, that's my point. But he was pretty cool, I was with this girl (can't remember her name was, it was cinco de mayo but she wasn't really mexican, guatamalan or something), anyway, the cop was cool, much cooler than NYDP would have been, he was all like "fine, take him home if that's what you want to do" to the girl. Austin is a pretty blue town, but definitely a red state, so perhaps I'm bigoted.

Anyhoo, politics had *huge* impact on religious wars, especially in europe. The 30 years war wasn't really a religious war, it was a political war that used religion as a proxy.

So, especially in the late era, when religion becomes something more than just a proxy for tribal affiliation, it's reasonable to have a large number of political units - inquisitors and stealth preachers, particularly, but also deacons and even outright komisars. The major european LA powers (Marignon and Ulm) already have such units, but there's more to it than that. Any suggestions about how to handle this game-mechanically?

[Teraswaerto]

Archonsod said:

Oh, I doubt Tolkien has anything to do with it. Over here he is probably the epitome of Right Wing. Much as he may have denied it, there are several political themes in his work (such as the scouring of the shire in ROTK - written at a time when socialist/soviet rebellion was a very real danger).
As for his black & white viewpoint, I've seen that been put down to Catholicism (he's less subtle than CS Lewis, but the basic moral structure is similar).

You are wrong. Also, less subtle than C.S. "Aslan is Jesus!!!" Lewis?

[Archonsod]

Meant to say "more subtle". I blame Eurovision

[HoneyBadger]

Aslan was a big lion who talked.

Some people see Jesus' face in potato chips. Now I realize that it was C.S. Lewis's point that Aslan was supposed to be Jesus, but maybe the potato chip company is really religious too.

It's all in how you interpret these things.

[HoneyBadger]

Do we have to get in to religion in the politics thread?

[Saxon]

Tolkien should be looked at in a different light that right vs. left. He is an early environmentalist arguing with industrialism. He grew up in rural South Africa and later moved to a heavily industrialized England. From the rolling and wild plains of Orange Free State to the heart of the industrial world.

This is reflecting in his work and taken a step farther in the movies. Industrial orc hatched in factories, cutting the trees and inspiring the attack of the Ents. Noble Shirefolk getting their peaceful rural ways upset by men. The age of magic elves passing and dirty men with their mechanical and mundane ways coming.

Interestingly, there are lots of parallels to early green movements in Germany in the 20’s and 30’s and, if we really want to talk politics, how those ideals and followers got pulled in and cooped by the Nazi movement. Up to today, the Greens in Germany have to be very careful about what images they use, as many of the traditional Green symbols were cooped by the Nazis. This is both for political and legal reasons, and I am sure many have you have seen various forum rules about Nazi imagery. Ideas of the Volk, connection to the earth and organic farming were all mixed together at the time.

I do rush to point out that the Greens in Germany have worked very hard to distance themselves from this past and I am in no way suggesting they hold those ideals today. The Red Green coalition in Germany is a very long way from the past.

In any case, looking at Tolkien developing his ideals in the pre war world, where the Greens were still young, but present, may give a different and, I would suggest, deeper view of his political thought.

[Gandalf Parker]

Thats interesting. I had always heard that the series was bedtime stories for his kids that just kept getting more and more elaborate as they grew older. And that trying to read hidden meanings into it was like looking for real world connotations in Dr Seuss.

[SlipperyJim]

Archonsod said:
I can see why Fantasy gamers would be considered more liberal (at least in the US) than the conservative traditional wargamers though. The whole magic and gods thing is probably a main contributary factor - the church has problems with such things, which means the more conservative Christians (over here most conservative Americans are usually seen as being Christian too, though I don't know if that's a stereotype or accurate) would likely also have an issue with such things.

Just FYI: I am a conservative, Bible-believing Christian who happens to love Dominions 3. No, pretending to be a demigod in a computer game does not bother me, nor do I believe that it offends God. God is easily smart enough to tell the difference between reality and fiction. For similar reasons, I am also a Harry Potter fan....

Now back to your irregularly-scheduled OT thread!

[MaxWilson]

SlipperyJim,

Fair enough--I'm Christian as well--but looking at the history of D&D it's still a valid observation that the, uh, more fundamentalist (evangelical?) Christians are less likely to be a fan of simulating pagan religious warfare. And fundamentalism is a form of conservatism, so IMHO Archonsod's point is valid.

-Max

[Gandalf Parker]

I think that the MegaGame might show us that game of politics is going to become a major factor in Dominions 3.