Counters to Niefelheim

[Baalz]

The strength of Niefelheim's troops is really their cold aura. What you want roughly (specifics will vary depending on what you have available) is a couple of cold immune guys (undead, or give them relevant items) with high defense (25+). Because the giants are so large, only a few can attack at once, so for relatively cheap you can get a couple of linebackers that'll hold them back for a good amount of time so your mages have a chance to work. The typical bless for Niefelhiem is N/E, so I'm assuming its something like that. With Arcoscephale what'd work well is a communion of 8 or so mages casting..say...orb lightning. 4 masters + 4 slaves makes orb lightning practically free (you can cast it all day long) and if your masters start at 3a (seems like that's what EA Arco has available) you're throwing down 20 or so AN attacks per round. Fried giant in no time!

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Niefelheim has above average magic resistance... But at that age and game stage it may be worth mind hunting them. It's pretty inexpensive at 2 pearls, and they aren't likely to have many ways to boost their magic resistance, while you're likely able to forge eyes of the void for a penetration bonus, maybe something else. Though I can't remember the requirements for mind hunts...

In general, counters depend on the bless. If its just nature, I'd focus on damage and numbers.

If they have a heavy water bless, ranged may be your best option.

As Agartha, I'd focus on armor of Achilles and other armor destruction spells.

[Saint_Dude]

Conventional forces are not effective vs. Niefel giants.

However, Your rainbow pretender as well as the Oreiads and Astrologers should be effective with the with the right scripting.

Some spells to consider:

Conjuration: Phoenix Power (F2), Summon Earth Power (E2), Power of the Spheres (S1), Light of the Northern Star (S3), and Will o' the Wisp (F1)

Alteration: Curse of Stones (E3) and Destruction (E3), Swarm (N1)

Evocation: Magma Bolts (E1, F1), Falling Fires (F3), Magma Eruption (E3, F1), and Thunder Strike (A3)

Thaumaturgy: Rage (F2), Prison of Fire (F3), Paralyze (S2), Confusion (A1), Soul Slay (S3), Enslave Mind (S4), and Hydrophobia (F1)

A couple of cold resistant thugs would be very helpful, especially if equipped with Fire Brands.

Fire Snakes also work pretty well vs. Niefels.

[Saxon]

This won’t help in this game, but you might want to re-examine how you research. You state you have level 6 in almost all the areas. There are times that strategy is useful, but there are other times that you would prefer to have a certain high level spell and have built a strategy around it.

Next time you are creating your nation, think about where you want there magic to be in mid game. Look at the high level spells and how they will work with your nation. Then plan your research to get those spells early, focusing all your research on those key spells. What usually happens to me is that I get “the spell” and can implement a powerful strategy much earlier than if I spread my research around.

Many people plan an early, mid and late game plan, even as they are designing their god and nation. What you need and what you have available at each stage is different.

[Edratman]

I am a little surprised that I haven't seen very many prior posts about problems with Nief giants before. As a SP, I have found them to be all but invincible against the AI. And I would just use a relatively inexpensive rainbow FWEN (4 to 6) bless.

In games when I would play myself, I found a death bless very effective in stopping invincible forces. You may not kill them right away, but if you can pile up 3 or 4 afflictions on a unit, they soon become quite vulnerable.

But this isn't useful to the chap who originally posted the question.

The advice previously given that you attack Nief's provinces is probably the easiest to implement. You should be able to take 2 or 3 provinces for every one that you lose. It is a permutation of Russian strategy where you retreat to win, but it is effective. No one likes to lose 2 provinces for one, so that should reverse the advance. Then you will have the time to acquire the manpower and research to use the spells that were suggested. A good variant of this is to attack a province just behind the unstoppable force. Set the tax rate to 200. If they turn to attack you, you just keep your army moving through his provinces avoiding battle and he wastes his good army taking back his provinces unopposed.

Another stategy that might work is to put up a castle in a wasteland or marsh if it has good blocking capability. Fill the castle with enough troops and engineers to offset the besiegers, give cauldrens and wines sacks to every commander and hope your opponent is foolish enough to starve himself into serious affliction issues. If this works it also buys you time to acquire effective head-on counters.

[Folket]

I do not play with blesses against the AI. The AI has no way to adapt. Once you defeat him without looses you will not have any more looses.

[SelfishGene]

The real key to beating Niefelheim is making them build those Niefel Giants; it's almost impossible for Niefelheim to afford both building lots of giants and fortifying his conquests. When Niefelheim a dramatic reverse, a Giant based strategy tends to suffer total collapse syndrome and crumples not long afterwords.

[HoneyBadger]

That's a good point. You can't play Niefelheim successfully or competitively, purely by creating Niefel giants.

As tough as they are, they're too expensive to use as a main army until late game, and you've got lots of other tough, useful troops.

Niefel giants are there to make a good army unbeatable, they're not there to provide that army, all by themselves.

To do so would be like building a navy that consisted only of battleships.

[Sandman]

A very effective tactic against Niefelhiem is ritual spells which cause unrest. Get unrest to over 100 in their capital and keep it there. Boom, no more Frost Giants. Rain of Toads, Raging Hearts, Plague of Locusts, Baleful Star, Blight and Hurricane are the spells you want.

[Dedas]

Thank you so much Honey!