MA Ulm Pretender - Page 3

HoneyBadger · #1 November 25th, 2008, 10:15 PM

By the way, what are the thoughts on using a Virtue with these guys? I'm currently using an asleep Virtue in a game, and he seems pretty good. Air 4, Death 5, Dom 10, 3 Prod, 1 Order, 2 Luck, 1 Growth, 2 Cold, and 3 Drain. So far so good, against the AI.

Not quite relevant to the conversation of Ulm vs Rushers, but I'm just getting used to actually being able to play again (sortof). Would a Virtue be a relevant choice for Ulm in MP?

HoneyBadger · #2 November 28th, 2008, 06:42 AM

Yeah, MA Ulm, once it gets rolling, seems quite powerful. All those individual units have good synergy with each other, and they can build up some serious experience. 3 stars on an arbelaster is more precision than you'd get with sacred Kailasan archers, and in a cheap, armour-piercing unit, with great armour.

Ofcourse, it takes a lot of time to get to 3 stars, but, used wisely, they have potential to last long enough to get there.

And, MA Ulm's units aren't hard to use. It's relatively straightforward to create a line of shield+morningstar infantry out front, calvalry to the side, arbelasters in back of the infantry. You can play around with the other units, adding in pike, flailers, battle-axers, etc. but the basics are almost built in.

Another cog in their engine is that you can instantly use their mage-smiths in combat. You'll want them researching, ofcourse, but when you're first establishing your empire, having 3-4 mage-smiths casting rain of stones or fire flies in the back does a lot against independents. And they're one of the few units Ulm has, that don't take a monstrous amount of resources to build.

That said, their sappers-armed with lighter crossbows-are actually a pretty good support unit. You can build them quickly, for sheer missle superiority, and use them later on in the game to break castles.

Endoperez · #3 November 28th, 2008, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

You'll want them researching, ofcourse, but when you're first establishing your empire, having 3-4 mage-smiths casting rain of stones or fire flies in the back does a lot against independents. And they're one of the few units Ulm has, that don't take a monstrous amount of resources to build.

I hope you meant Stone Shards. If you didn't, could you PM me the details?

EDIT: I like using magic bows and Sceptres of Authority on my support commanders, very early if I get the chance. In fact, as I tend to research Construction 1 for Legions of Steel first, if I get a Fire gem event early I go for Constr 2 instead of Evocation. 5 fatigue Flame Bolts for 3 gems is hard to beat in the early game (from Sceptre of authority). Now if only Fire Bolas were an effective counter to elephants...

Baalz · #4 December 1st, 2008, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endoperez

I hope you meant Stone Shards. If you didn't, could you PM me the details?

Rain of stones is actually a really powerful move for Ulm. You should end up with a couple smiths who get an air random, and with your forge bonus you can cheaply slap black steel plate on your combat mages (2 earth gems apiece with a hammer). Have your mages cast stone/iron skin round one and they (along with all your black plate troops) will be functionally immune to the rain of stones. Anybody tough enough to shrug off the stones now gets the joy of charging into magma eruptions. Anybody too tough for *that* will probably face destruction. Hmmm, come to think of it, a sadistic person might wait until after a couple turns of destruction to land the stones. >

Or, just empower your air random smith cheaply with 30 gems, stick some black steel full plate on him and a pair of earth boots, cloud trapeze into the path of an attacking army to drop a first round rain of stones which your PD will mostly ignore (not so much the enemy mages). Retreat, rinse, and repeat. Probably worthwhile to invest a few extra items on that guy, but you don't need anything expensive.

SlipperyJim · #5 December 1st, 2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baalz

Rain of stones is actually a really powerful move for Ulm. You should end up with a couple smiths who get an air random, and with your forge bonus you can cheaply slap black steel plate on your combat mages (2 earth gems apiece with a hammer). Have your mages cast stone/iron skin round one and they (along with all your black plate troops) will be functionally immune to the rain of stones. Anybody tough enough to shrug off the stones now gets the joy of charging into magma eruptions. Anybody too tough for *that* will probably face destruction. Hmmm, come to think of it, a sadistic person might wait until after a couple turns of destruction to land the stones.

You're a very evil man, and I appreciate that. After I finish my current Lanka game, I'm thinking I should play as MA Ulm. Ulm was my first choice back in the Dom:PPP days, and it's about time to revisit those glory days.

HoneyBadger · #6 November 28th, 2008, 07:24 PM

Stone shards is what I meant, rain of stones just sounds better (and I didn't have my manual handy)

HoneyBadger · #7 December 2nd, 2008, 09:56 PM

I think just having a small corps of mages set to casting Destruction, specifically, wouldn't be a bad idea, once you've got Rain of Stones going on.

KissBlade · #8 December 3rd, 2008, 02:04 PM

I should point out, rush strategies tend not to win games anyway outside of small maps. Remember, against good players, you don't have to have the best army. You just have to have a better one than his other neighbors.

Agema · #9 December 4th, 2008, 08:29 AM

To what extent could Ulm divert elephants with a load of small combat groups (say, 6 groups of 5 each) by creating a sort of "chain" of target nearest that keeps them from large troop formations for as long as possible, allowing mages and missiles to whittle them down?

Baalz · #10 December 4th, 2008, 09:33 AM

Elephants vs Ulm are a bit of an overblown threat IMO, particularly since Ulm's face lift. Magma bolts decimate the shieldless pachyderms when spammed in sufficient numbers, and I haven't tested it out but it seems like iron darts/blizzard would work reasonably as well.

As far as beating elephants without using mages - no there's not really any clever placement you can do, the best you can really manage is trying to mass enough sappers/arbalests to get critical mass to bring them down before they start splattering your troops. This actually works pretty well due to your archer's range if you can get a sufficient number and your opponent is holding his elephants back waiting for your mages to tire out. 2-4 volleys of bolts does a lot when you fire enough of them at things without shields. If your opponent is instead charging straight forward with a big block of elephants, try half a dozen smiths spamming magma bolts into their face - you won't be disappointed. Moral of the story is Ulm's combat mages are their backbone, you'll struggle mightily against lots of stuff without them.

The thing about elephants is they really need critical mass plus they're expensive. If your opponent masses a bunch of them together and pushes straight for your capital, meet it with all those research mages you've got there. If he splits it into a couple largish groups, spread out your mages into hit squads and take the aggressors out one group at a time. If he splits into smaller squads, just boost your PD strategically - it has the right weapons to do some damage if there are less than 5 elephants per group. If you're to the point that you've got several largish squads of elephants...well you should really have magma eruption and blade wind by that point as well as several castles cranking out smiths, so I don't see that as too much of a problem.