OW's Guide to Midgard, Scales and Skinshifters

[Ludivico van]

This is just a method for strong early expansion, which has resulted in a huge amount of income and a solid foundation of research going.

I just started an sp game to get a feel for the strategies, so i just chose a GE as my god with E3 S1 D3 N7 and a dominion strength of 6 or 7 (can't remember) and have thus far used to great success skinshifters with a vanjarl and I made a prophet out of Vanlade (got a hero turn 2 with misfortune 2) so he could cast the battlefield wide blessing. I don't know if you mentioned this idea; i gave a cursory look over the specific strategies. I like going by babysteps.

[Ludivico van]

I just started an sp game to get a feel for the strategies, so i just chose a GE as my god with E3 S1 D3 N7 and a dominion strength of 6 or 7 (can't remember) and have thus far used to great success skinshifters with a vanjarl and I made a prophet out of Vanlade (got a hero turn 2 with misfortune 2) so he could cast the battlefield wide blessing. I don't know if you mentioned this idea; i gave a cursory look over the specific strategies. I like going by babysteps.

[OmikronWarrior]

Originally Posted by Ludivico van

I just started an sp game to get a feel for the strategies, so i just chose a GE as my god with E3 S1 D3 N7 and a dominion strength of 6 or 7 (can't remember) and have thus far used to great success skinshifters with a vanjarl and I made a prophet out of Vanlade (got a hero turn 2 with misfortune 2) so he could cast the battlefield wide blessing. I don't know if you mentioned this idea; i gave a cursory look over the specific strategies. I like going by babysteps.

Of course you're having good luck with the strategy, if it was not a solid one, why would I bother to write a guide for it?

Anyways, creating an early prophet (not uncommonly the player's starting scout) to cast Divine Blessing is a very well known tactic regardless of nation, but one I do not feel has much worth for Midgard. Keep in mind only sacred units benefit from a bless and unless you have a really good bless (two 9's) Midgard's Vans are to expensive to recruit early on.

Also, did you really get N-7? Cannot see the utility behind that. N-6 is all you need for the bless and all you for casting. Realistically, I'd say N-3 is plenty unless you want to use Vanjarls as Mistforming thugs, then go N-4 and use the points elsewhere. For example, buying Astral-3 would have allowed your Enchantress to reach S-5 with the Starshine Cap and Crystal Coin (which also requires Earth-2, which she had). At S-5, the player can build the Ring of Sorcery, equip it and build the Ring of Wizardry, which will be much more useful in the long run than more nature magic.

Hoped this made sense and isn't to much for somebody just getting their feet wet.

[Viajero]

I know this is a guide FOR Midgard, but maybe it is also the best place to ask:

How on earth do you kill those %&#ing bastard Midgard skinshifters? :-)

Arrows may be a good one but whenever they get storm, arrow fend et al it is game over again. Is area evo magic the only solution? Any good melee option?

What would be the efficient ways to dispose of this freaks of nature?

[Baalz]

Shifters are pretty good under storm, no doubt. Area evo is the most obvious solution. Even under storm enough archers will still give them problems, particularly with flaming arrows/wind guide. They've got a measly 10 MR so any magic resist stuff will give them problems - curse of stones, winds of death, shadow blast, bloodletting. Forge a few banefire xbows and hit & run from behind your PD, you'll be surprised how fast they thin out. Their morale is only 12 so fear/terror/panic spam is another option. Melee with them is not generally where you want to be unless you've got top notch units yourself, but keep in mind they are 25 gold apiece so you can sometimes win on a gold basis even taking 2:1 losses.

[Viajero]

Cool thanks. What about giant E and N blessed nations a la Utgard etc? Would those giants be useful against the midgard boys or would they be surrounded and decimated due to size diference factor and triple attack from the wolf shapes?

[OmikronWarrior]

Originally Posted by Baalz

... they are 25 gold apiece so you can sometimes win on a gold basis even taking 2:1 losses.

25 gold? Hah, they're only 20 for Midgard!

Now to answer the original question... going toe to toe with Skinshifters is usually a loosing proposition. You can either Arrow them (though Storm and Arrow Fend makes this so very ineffective) or use a thug/SC strategy. Also, try to use your mages as effectively as possible, if your opponent isn't using their Air Mages Optimally, then you have a chance to win some major battles.

[13lackGu4rd]

skinshifters usually eat giants, especially in werewolf form, due to sheer numbers as you suspected. however giants with auras, such as Niefel Giants and their cold aura, should do fairly well with a standard E9N9 bless as long as you put up a decent number of them. the blessing gives them plenty of regeneration power and reinvigoration, the aura causes fatigue to the skinshifters, so as long as you can survive a few rounds of attacks from the skinshifters, shouldn't be too hard as long as you have enough to form a massive giant line, to not let the skinshifters completely surround your giants. after 2-3 rounds most of the skinshifters would be frozen from the cold aura, than it's easy picking but keep in mind that battle magic can change the odds, Fog Warriors, Mass Flight, Warriors of Niefelheim, etc would turn the tide in the skinshifter's favor, likewise you can bring battle magic of your own, say Mass Regeneration, Army of Gold, Weapons of Sharpness, etc. however once Warriors of Niefelheim(or its lesser variants) comes in play cold aura will stop working, which will make it a lot harder. that would be the time for alternative methods such as those Baalz mentioned

[thejeff]

Cold Aura still works under Warriors of Neifelheim or the smaller versions, doesn't it?
They give 50% cold resistance so the effect is lessened, but the Niefel Giants aura is so ridiculous it's still effective.

Of course, skinshifters don't exist in the early age and Niefel giants don't exist elsewhere, so the specific point is moot, except in Single Age games.

The main strength of the giant nations is SC/thug, not troops. It should be pretty easy to take skinshifters with giant thugs. They're not particularly high damage so high prot and a bit of regen will work well. You've got to hit them twice, which is a disadvantage. BoW will help. Does Fire Shield do damage on each attack (3x a round!) or each attack action?

[13lackGu4rd]

oh, I thought Warriors of Niefelheim gave 100% immunity not just 50%. and yeah, that will only work in single age mod, just gave it as an example on giants in general, didn't find any other giants with auras, don't think the Hinnom(and successors) have heat auras but not sure. as for thugs, not sure you'll have enough prot to survive against a mass of skinshifters, especially once buffed by say Strength of Giants and later Weapons of Sharpness. also, don't forget that the higher fatigue you acquire the higher the chance for critical strikes, and a few thugs facing a massive skinshifter army would acquire fatigue very quickly unless you got an E9 bless(and robes of the saint if not sacred) and plenty of reinvigoration items. Fire Shield will work to an extent I guess, but again, it won't be enough by itself.