SEV Models in Starfury?

[Fizar]

I was unable to find any posts via search, that answered my questions. I looked at the Abbidon race in both games, and took a look at the fighter as an example. The textures are the same, but the X-files don't match up. I'm inept at 3D modeling and wanted to pull in some of the SEV ships into StarFury for my own personal modding enjoyment. I don't think I would be able to release anything with SEV graphics though.

Anyway, I haven't been able to do it successfully and maybe it's because I'm missing something. I haven't added any ships or anything to Starfury, so it's possible I just missed a step. Or maybe they are just not compatible even though it looks as if they are.

Has anyone attempted this? And if so, would you mind posting a rough guide?

[rstaats10]

Yes I have added upwards of around 100 ships to SF from SEV as well as other games.

Basic rough guide for SEV to SF conversion:

(1) copy and paste xfile from SEV to SF and place in xfile folder

(2) copy and paste texture image(s) form SEV and place in image folder in SF

(3) create entry for Spaceobjects_xfiles folder. The easy way is to just copy and paste an existing entry say a Terran Destoyer and change the name and reference the xfile.x to match your xfile you added in step (1).

(4) Copy and paste the Terran Destroyer in the Main_StartingPlayerShips and give it a new name. Also change the Spaceobjects_xfiles name to the one you just created in step(3)

You should be able to load up and see the ship at this point. Although this is the quick and easy way, you will want to change the shield layouts and portrait files and create your own slot configurations with the SJ Slot modder program available from Suicide Junkie in the SF mod utilities section on this forum. If you get the urge to convert from other, non SEV sources you may have to adjust the starting y or z rotations, the ship scale, firing points and engine glows (all adjusted in the Spaceobjects_xfiles entry from step (3).) Use anim8or to get firing points and engine glow coordinates.

Also check out doga if you want make 3d-models. If you are like me, I am not too good with ship modeling in general. Doga is quick and easy. The vertices and polygons may be a little higher than SEV ships since we have ovelapping parts with doga models. Some people are good at merging the points. I am not.

This is an oversimplification of what I do sometimes to get a ship added. I sometimes use the programs LithUnwrap, Anim8or and UVmapper to to tweak the ships from non SEV sources. I have used free trials of Polygon Cruncher and Lightwave. With Polygon Cruncher as a plugin for Lightwave, I am able to take a non-SEV high Poly models and usually make them work in SF.

Just to let you know I have been working on my SF mod for over 7 months now. I am still making more missions for it but it is basically completed. The missions take time to make but when I am completed I will provide a download for everyone.

[Fizar]

(3) create entry for Spaceobjects_xfiles folder. The easy way is to just copy and paste an existing entry say a Terran Destoyer and change the name and reference the xfile.x to match your xfile you added in step (1).

Thank you rstaats10, that's the step I was missing. I did try copying the Data from the SEV file _Ships_XFileClasses.txt, removed the irrelevant fields that didn't match other entries in SF, and ran into a problem. The ship collision size was much larger than the actual ship.

I am not sure if this is because I shrunk the ship down 50% in Spaceobjects_xfiles, or if I missed something else.
If I just copied a similarly sized ship already in SF, wouldn't my firing points and engine glow be off? Or would I just copy those aspects from _Ships_XFileClasses.txt? What all do you usually have to tweak, and do you run into this same problem when resizing models?

Another problem I am having, is speed and firing points. When I am going at full speed over about 1.5ish my firing point appears behind where it is supposed to be, and for smaller ships, it appears behind the ship. Is there a way to correct for this? I would like to make some ships that go about 2.5 Max speed.

[EDIT]

I'm also graphically inept, so me using any 3D modeling software is probably a bad idea and may actually be dangerous or illegal in some countries. I'm taking a huge risk even trying to move graphics from one game to another, there's just no telling what kind of disaster is waiting to happen.

[rstaats10]

When you transfer ships from SEV to SF you can use the SEV Ships_XFileClasses.txt that goes with the SEV model. You will have to make sure your weapons firing points match with your firing points in the Ships_XFileClasses.txt match the firing points in the Main_ComponentConfigurationSlotsPlayers text file. An example follows:

(taken from Ships_XFileClasses)
Firing Point 1 X := 68.7842
Firing Point 1 Y := 411.142
Firing Point 1 Z := -75.0836
Firing Point 1 Arc Start := 315
Firing Point 1 Arc End := 45

(taken from Main_ComponentConfigurationSlotsPlayers)
Slot 1 Xpos := 258
Slot 1 Ypos := 293
Slot 1 Group Name := Weapon (Light) 1
Slot 1 Comp Type Allowed := Weapon (Light)
Slot 1 Comp Type Abbreviation := W(L)
Slot 1 Comp Box Color Index := 1
Slot 1 Ship Section := Hull
Slot 1 Ship Side Facing := 0
Slot 1 Weapon Firing Point := 1
Slot 1 Weapon Arc Start := 315
Slot 1 Weapon Arc End := 45

see where it says firing point 1 and start arc 315 and end arc 45. It matches up in both text files Ships_XFileClasses and Main_ComponentConfigurationSlotsPlayers. If it doesn't match you can have problems.

As far as the actual firing points (where the beam or torpedo comes out of your ship at), you need to have the x, y, z coordinates properly inputed for the model. The SEV Ships_XFileClasses should have this already calculated corectly unless they errored in doing it. You can use Anim8or to easily get the x, y, z coordinates or you can always just set x,y,z to all zeros and the weps will come from the center of the ship model.

The starting scale of the ships can be changed in the Ships_XFileClasses text file too. If it's too big, for example, let's say x, y, z starting scales are at 1.0 then just experiment with it and change all 3 to 0.7 or something. This will not affect the firing points or engine points. If there is engine glows then you may need to reduce the radius (of the engine glow)

As far as the speed do you mean the torpedos are not fast enough? You can change the speed of all the weapons in the Main_BitmapEffects text file. There is a place in each wep effect for speed.

My suggestion is when using an SEV Ship for SF use the SEV Ships_XFileClasses for the SF game. Your fing points however must match up with the firing points for your weapons slots in Main_ComponentConfigurationSlotsPlayers. Use SJ's slot modder to make new slots for the ship. If you don't want to make new slots then just follow the Terran Destroyer example I posted earlier and just set the wep firing points to zero. I usually just use anim8or to get my x,y,z coordinates when it's a non-SEV ship I am using or when I make new firing points. Some SEV models have x,y,z at zeros to start with anyways. With experience you can do more.

Another good suggestion when modding SF is to play in windowed mode. Go to SF setup and under video mode select windowed mode. This will display an error message instead of just freezing the game up when there is a problem. So many things can go wrong and you have to be exact on your single line spacing in the text files too. Once you do a few ships and get the hang of it, it becomes quite easy to do. I could help you out on MSN messenger sometime if you need. If so then send me a PM with your MSN and I can help you while I am online.

[Fizar]

Thank you rstaats10, I will try to get anim8or and see if I can fumble my way through it. I've now managed to get 4 SEV ships into SF with your advice and they are all "mostly" working. I am still having the same two problems though.

"As far as the speed do you mean the torpedos are not fast enough? You can change the speed of all the weapons in the Main_BitmapEffects text file. There is a place in each wep effect for speed. "

No I meant for like Beam weapons. If I set the ship's top speed past 1.5, and I start a fight at that speed, the beam starts behind my ship, or in the middle of my ship (depending on size of the ship) instead of at my firing points on the front of the ship. When I slow down, it works fine and looks perfect. Tested with only 1 weapon on each ship, so that I was dealing with one firing point at a time.

The second issue, was only tested with SEV ships, and not SF ships yet (although I will test it when I get home from work, to see if it's something to do with the SEV models). If I take a large ship, say a carrier, that I think would look nice as a fighter, so I shrink it down from carrier size to fighter size. The collision border is still carrier size. So As I wooosh past a planet that is clearly not even close to touching my ship, I explode.

I can take a Terran battleship through an asteroid field in the stock campaign, but my carrier-turned-fighter is too big, even though the model is shrunken to the size of a fighter.

[Campeador]

There are limits that should not be crossed, like speed and size.
It sounds logic that if you double the speed of the game, all aspects of the game play from screen action, to AI execution it would be double the normal speed, but it is not. Too fast and the graphics cannot catch up, and the AI cannot catch up either.
So the best way to go is simply to try, see the results and adjust accordingly. I do not try to pass 1.6 (Zentradi fighter) on fighters because it may be too fast for player reaction, AI reaction, turn rate, sounds and more that you will see if you try. But by all means by trying is how we learn.
As well as the speed there are limits about size. For example I did try to make few ships really big like a Zentradi flagship (4km in length), or a Borg cube (3km cube), and many others but the results were not satisfactory. For example if the enemy ship is too big you may fly inside the ship (all in 3d by the way…) really cool - but not the initial intention. A ship too big also affects collision, weapon range and many other factors which not only affects the ship in question but also the other normal size ships when on the same screen.
For example if a fighter weapon range is 60, it may never fire at the big ship due to collision or range of the ‘hearth’ coordinates of the big ship, ('Base Model Radius'?), may be greater than the fighter range. By the way to this date I do not know how the 'Base Model Radius' setting affects the ships on the game even thought I have use a great array of different numbers.
I do not know much about SEV to bring any helpful input on ships conversion. On star Fury you can internally scale your ship by editing the 'SpaceObjects_XFiles.txt'
On my whole series I used the Terran battleship as the standard scale for the Yamato. Then I used the Yamato as the standard to scale all the ships I made on the game.
I am not that bright on the ways of graphics. I do not have a smart way to set up firing points, so I use the old fashion way of placing a firing point on a spot, try the game, see where it shows up and then re-adjust until it lands on the tip of my cannon. Time consuming but works for me.
Please note that my observations are only what I have tried. Not like somthing is impossible, simply that maybe I have not found the right way of doing something.

[rstaats10]

Quote by Fizar:


No I meant for like Beam weapons. If I set the ship's top speed past 1.5, and I start a fight at that speed, the beam starts behind my ship, or in the middle of my ship (depending on size of the ship) instead of at my firing points on the front of the ship. When I slow down, it works fine and looks perfect. Tested with only 1 weapon on each ship, so that I was dealing with one firing point at a time.

The second issue, was only tested with SEV ships, and not SF ships yet (although I will test it when I get home from work, to see if it's something to do with the SEV models). If I take a large ship, say a carrier, that I think would look nice as a fighter, so I shrink it down from carrier size to fighter size. The collision border is still carrier size. So As I wooosh past a planet that is clearly not even close to touching my ship, I explode.

End quote by Fizar

Hmm on your first issue I usually don't change the beam speed just the torpedo and bolt speeds sometimes. My fastest ship is probably 1.7 and I didn't notice any problems with beams on my ship. Try and set the wep firing points to 0,0,0 (x,y,z) and see if this happens when at top speed. You could always experiment around and make a special beam component for that ship then create a new bitmapeffects for that weapon and increase the beam speed. I haven't tried increasing the beam speed yet or had the need to.

There is a good tutorial for SF for slots and firing points. Check out http://koti.mbnet.fi/sfhaven/tutorial1.php This is how I learned about slots and firing points and such.

Hmm with your second issue. I am not sure. I have taken a dreadnought ship from SEV and reduced the scale and gave new textures to make it a fighter and I had no trouble. As Campeador mentioned try reducing the base model radius in spaceobjectsXfiles.


Do you have LithUnrap? If you want to use anim8or you will have to convert an xfile to obj or 3ds to import it into anim8or. On ships that I really care about I can set weapons to fire from any point on the ship. If It's a minor race ship I usually don't bother and just set points to 0,0,0. Just read through the tutorial and at the Starfuryhaven I listed above. It took me a few trys to get it figured out myself. Now I can make firing points and engine glows in just minutes.

There is so much to learn when modding and I am continually learning new stuff along the way. Many thanks to Campeador and Suicide Junkie for their hard work and SF tools to make SF modding attainable.