The (not really) Official Endgame Summon Thread!

[Aezeal]

My sandworm from the nomads and genies mod I think it is a pretty nice end game beastie.

Beholders could do all kind of stuff, I couldn't see them as on par with tarts or seraphs I must admit but a bit less strong options wouldn't be that bad either.

wyrm based amphibious creatures wouldn't be bad either (midgard serpent like)

Son of Fenrir like beasties (or other large beasties) could be an option

ow and my favorite.. a DECENT SC phoenix summon (the pretender kinda... ehm sucks???)

Hydra mage summon would be nice too (commander and some item slots)

[Zeldor]

I did read just the first page now, I will have to read rest later

But what we really need is:
- much more universal SC and thug summons for paths exccept death, especially nature should get something
- that mod should be expanding addon of CBM which makes normal summons better and changes some old ones
- summons should rather be expansion of what magic school is
- we also need much much more national summons, they should really make end-game different
- we need to make an increase in spell limit etc in next patch, our new moderators should do that I think with current one we'd get into problem with onebattlespell etc

llamabeast:

Yep, I was writing about treelords in conceptual content thread. But that looks like ages from being done and Better Summons Mod seems to have more attention here. Copy of my general idea:


I would like to see about 5 levels of treelors, at 10N, 20N, 30N, 40N, 50N [all non-unique] + couple unique ones at 50-75N. Unique ones could be those that we have now but with really big buffs. Maybe with ability to use Faery Trod for free, while still being immobile...
All of them would need a lot of HP, big regen, nice reinvigoration, decent MR. On higher levels they could also get other magic picks [e.x. Swamp Treelord with water and death].
The only problem is that you wouldn't be able to set them to patrol outside fort. I guess there is no way to go around that, so price for immobiles should also reflect that.

They could surely make use of 'forest shape' mod command.

[Endoperez]

I tried modding my suggestions, but using Seasonal Spirits and CB together leaves them without magic.

Any suggestions for the great bear spirit of autumn? He'll be E4N3D2 at least, 200 hp, ethereal, prot 30, regen 20 and will heal his afflictions. And fallpower 50, so that his hp fluctuate between 100 and 400. I think he's the weakest one of the four because he doesn't have any AoE effects, damage shields or weapons, and the others summon better helpers. Would trample and 20 AP be enough to keep the bear competitive in the late game? I could give it some reinvigoration as well, if necessary, and it will have magical claws and bite to use against anything too big to trample.
The other ability I've been considering is huge fear aura, and an undead secondshape to protect him from soul slay. It'd link well to the Finnish peijaiset ritual, but also mean that he coudln't handle chaff alone.

[Amhazair]

Endoperez said:
I tried modding my suggestions, but using Seasonal Spirits and CB together leaves them without magic.

That sounds suspiciously like the bug that surfaced in the latest patch giving issues with mod nations. Try activating your mods in a different order, that worked for some people. You can find a discussion of that bug in pages 130-131 of the bug thread.

[Wrana]

Considering the king-with-snakes from Shahname - he is already in the game as Pretender with exactly the same snakes growing from his shoulders (called Lord of Snakes or somesuch). Shiva, etc. is also already in the game, though these summons are limited to India-based nations... And certainly Balrog-like creatures are plentiful enough (and it's not "thought of as demon" - that's his author's own words)! The (almost the) same goes for 4 Horsemen: they should be Death and it already has Tratarians...
Dragons would be very good, with Western-type ones having stats like those of Pretender dragons & only 1-2 Paths, & Oriental ones having different pictures, slightly worse stats & better magic (including Astral). Possibly Seasonal Power & certainly limit to China/Japan mythology-using nations.
Great Bear I've made as Pretender for my Bogarus-splitting mod. Fortunately the graphics were already here. I didn't make him trampler, but have given him 2 Paw Slap attacks having aoe 1 instead. I think it would be more in style of real bears...
Cerberus probably shouldn't be very large, but should have plenty of attacks, including some magical ones (I'd think 3 dog-head bites, 1 dragon-head which it had instead of tail, plus some Hydra-style as it had snakes instead of fur on his shoulders), plus immunity to undead attacks (various drains - don't know whether it's possible to do without making it undead), Dark Power - it became weaker under daylight, and certainly Patrol bonus!
Another possibilty is to continue the line of trolls - make a spell to specifically summon troll Moose Knights & someone Bogus-like...
Considering monster Pretenders I wouldn't put too much hope in them: their use is based, I think, mainly on Fear/Awe combo, with Awe provided by high Dominion. As actual monsters they would be too weak without such Awe (and there are no misc-slot items to grant such iirc) & extra hp granted by Dominion level...
Considering Sleeper I agree that he should be boosted - probably getting something like Hall of Fame ability(s) for free? After all, he's considered to have much experience...
I also agree that while Niefelheim has no real SC-gaining problem, they (and probably other Norse nations?) should have an ability to summon Rimtursar! And an idea that Greek-based nations should (at least at EA) have an ability to summon legendary Greek heroes was voiced recently... And just a thought: background of Man's Witches and Wardens says that Wardens are magically transformed by Witches to become stronger, etc. Maybe Man's Witches should have an appropriate spell which either summons Wardens or transforms normal infantry (?) into such? Similar transformation should be useful for other nations too - and is more appropriate for Nature magic than summons of unnatural creatures. The only possibility for this I think would be were-creatures: either some Werebear/Wereboar/Weretiger - stronger than existing Werewolf so better thug candidates (possibly not for every nation), or lycantrope which is also a mage of some skill so can self-buff (or both). I would also include some dinosaurs, but they probably should be resricted to C'tis...

[MaxWilson]

Endoperez said:
I tried modding my suggestions, but using Seasonal Spirits and CB together leaves them without magic.

Any suggestions for the great bear spirit of autumn? He'll be E4N3D2 at least, 200 hp, ethereal, prot 30, regen 20 and will heal his afflictions. And fallpower 50, so that his hp fluctuate between 100 and 400. I think he's the weakest one of the four because he doesn't have any AoE effects, damage shields or weapons, and the others summon better helpers. Would trample and 20 AP be enough to keep the bear competitive in the late game? I could give it some reinvigoration as well, if necessary, and it will have magical claws and bite to use against anything too big to trample.

I'm dubious about that Prot 20 on an ethereal being. You've giving him E4--shouldn't he have to buff himself up to Prot 20/25 with spells? I should think even a super-large bear with really thick skin would only have Prot 12 or so.

What's the thematic reason behind D2? I like it in a way because it lets him get reinvig via Soul Vortex, but I'd like a thematic justification.

-Max

[Endoperez]

First version of my monster mod attached. It has four seasonal spirits and one improved Mechanical Man commander. I've tested the units and they should work fine, and the spells appear, but I haven't tested if they summon the correct creature (or anything at all).

That's 4 level 9 non-unique SC summons and one strong non-unique level 9 thug. The mechanical giant has full slots, full immunities and enc 0, but 40 hp and mr 12. It might still be too good for its price (15 gems).

[Aezeal]

I'd say make relatively WEAK Fighter --> mages with a one battle spells.. and then not one that has all those major effects Twan had.. but multiple so you'd have to combine them and they could be killed w/o to much effort

[Wrana]

Transform command is, I think, impossible. Rituals, iirc, will work on any unit(s) which is not what is desired. Though there is a transformation possibility here. I would say that chain of #firstshape would be better, or even making unresearchable #onebattlespell - unless somebody actually knows how The Eater of the Dead works!
We also could add to any of these possibilities some uncontrollability - for example, giving large dragons some Tartarian-style madness & making their final shape a neutral. This will make Dragons a viable alternative, but not a must-have.
A #onebattlespell alternative is cool, too. I'm not sure about it exact effects on gameplay, though. Testing may prove whether or not it makes conventional armies even weaker than SC prevalence does. But in any case I think this is a productive direction to look in. Also, does somebody know whether it's possible to take SCs out temporarily without banishing them to Cocytos?

[JimMorrison]

Ironhawk said:
Dominions has such a huge number of units and spells that its really not possible to learn them all. Sure, you need to build a base of experience in a static environment. But the skills you should be building are unit evaluation, rather than rote memorization. If you do that, then it doesnt matter what mods your game has.

I fully agree. But one must learn how to dance one step at a time. Perfecting certain basic moves is essential to having the background to accurately plan off of highly unexpected circumstances. It is one thing to end up with a different gem balance than you are used to, quite another to suddenly have 18 Prot archers.


Anyways, let's see what I can do for ideas -

Balrog - E/F - demon, flying, fear, heat aura
Ettin - E - Ambi, extra head slot
Cockatrice - E/F - Petrify, flying
Treant - N - mobile treelord, summon ally: vine ogre
Sasquatch - A/N - trample, cold aura
Olm - W/E - mind blast, enslave mind
Gorgon - E/N - (really, just like the pretender)
Void Hunter - S - similar to Void Lord, alternative to Wish
Shishi - A - flying, standard, lightning
Celestial Master - A/S - samurai or monk, draw from Raiden from MK


I'll think of more later, I need to go for awhile.