OT-Black Company

[djo]

It all depends on your tastes and sensibilities, of course, but Gene Wolfe is a serious writer is a way than none of the others mentioned so far are. Many of the other mentioned works have their merits. GRRM writes well, although I personally couldn't finish "Game of Thrones". Brust and Cook write fine entertainment. Tolkien sired the modern fantasy genre.

But Wolfe is the one you want, after Tolkien, if you want to discuss lasting value. They ain't gonna award a Nobel for science fiction or fantasy, not anytime soon, but if they wanted to, with Borges dead, it'd go to Wolfe. Many of his books are literary, no question. Some of them leave you with the impression that you weren't smart enough to read them. And that's not a path to popularity.

He writes on big themes, in original worlds, with incredible characters. He doesn't slow down for you...he writes the story, and it's your job to read it, whether he's using words that have been obsolete for several centuries, or whether his narrator is unreliable due to personality or injury, or whether he just hasn't told you the things the narrator knows, and expects you to have figured out on your own. But everything comes together, and the sum is far greater than the parts.

The aforementioned "Wizard Knight" duology is a good start. They are as straightforward as Wolfe gets, and you see the way he handles worlds and characters (and words, for that matter). He's taken the classic trope of the boy in our world falling into a fantasy world and coming of age as a hero and twisted it inside out a few times until it's become a study in the growing maturity of a hero. It's a world based on a well-known Earthly mythology, for cryin' out loud, and yet the whole thing comes off fresh and original.

I have to follow up on something Endoperez said upthread...

Endoperez said:At times, it's more like horror, except it made me uncomfortable unlike any horror book I've read. Not afraid, but uncomfortable - I didn't know if I wanted to read what would happen, because if it went wrong, it would go bad.

That's a familiar feeling. Wolfe can make you feel, and not the way you expected. There's a point in his "Book of the Short Sun" where the viewpoint character becomes scary, not because he's evil, but because he is good. It was like reading the life of a saint. I felt uncomfortable not knowing if I wanted things to go right.

Thus endeth my rant...

[Wrana]

Well, this surely goes beyond the initial topic, but nevertheless:

Xietor:
Jordan and martin were both very strong starters, but neither was the equal of Tolkien. Tolkien told a masterful story that actually had an ending. Yes he had sub plots, but they never distracted him from the main theme and he tied them all up nicely and concluded the series.

Agreed with you and HoneyBadger that definite ending surely improves the writers' work. Tolkien, of course, was in a position better than that of modern commercial writers. Actually, what an approach such as theirs can bring is seen in Cristopher Tolkien's "sequels". And as Robert Asprin has written to his fans: "It's quite difficult to remain funny continuously for six books". And in less light-hearted genre it's possibly more difficult still. However, the recipe is simple: not to write soap operas. There ARE even modern writers who upkeep such a principle. I had already named some. And Martin & Jordan... they possibly don't even see the problem. Glen Cook surely does - and he makes memorable endings. That would be enough to say that those two aren't even close to him in work quality. However, I disagree about "very strong starters" - very strong relative to what? And what their "strength" consists of? They are quite primitive - and in Martin's case main plot is borrowed (& he doesn't do justice to his material, from my point of view)...

HoneyBadger :
The first book of SoIaF was so revolutionary, so full of hope and promise, that it literally took my breath away

What did you see as "revolutionary"? Remember that this was written after Dixon's Saint Dragon, for Cthulhu's sake! "Grub-work" I surely see, but greatness?! And as for "ignoring publishers"... It takes character, man!

Renojustin :
George RR Martin owns us all.

Please speak for yourself. I, for myself, is completely nonplussed.

HoneyBadger :
I like GRRM, but honestly, he's not the best writer that ever came down the pike. His strength is in writing fantasy for adults, and that's good

And you speak thusly after Tanith Lee??? And what I've heard said about his "innovation" is using real world history as framework for his story. As I've said, I prefer actual chronicles. And in any case, Turtledove does this so much better! Though even for Turtledove, who IS a real historician such method HAS caused much laziness in making his own material of late... Which shows what it does for a writer. Though I'm not sorry for Martin in this case.