Our beloved Pretenders!

[Gandalf Parker]

IMHO the usual problem with national pretenders is that they ARE thematic. They match their nations too closely. They dont fill a need. Why should I take a god with nature magic and food bonuses for a nation already full of nature magic and food bonuses? And yet a nature based pretender does make sense.

I think the nationals will generally be loved by the daydreaming RPGers and loathed by the spreadsheet strategists. Both groups will just have to accept that some of the gods "suck". But as long as they seem to disagree on which gods suck, then it will be a feature and not a bug.

[thejeff]

Not sure I can agree with that.

If some pretenders are weak (expensive, not adding diversity, etc) but thematically cool, while others are cheap or strong but boring or unthematic, that's not a feature even if there's disagreement over which is the worse problem.

Better to come up with strong thematic gods for the nationals. And there are some. Gorgon is probably the most commonly used example. National pretenders should be special.

[Wrana]

Agree about national Pretenders. It's a pity that, say, Lawgiver for MA Mictlan is completely useless - it has recruitable Coatles which can do just antything he can. And he doesn't have a single special rule afair!
I like Divine Emperor for Pythium, though I didn't play this nation much lately. Void Lord for R'lyeh also. Master Lich is often both useful and thematic, and Ghost King can be thematic for most nations (though I would prefer the LA Arcoscephales to get their own special one - that of the "Great Conqueror" mentioned in their background)...

[DonCorazon]

I (and my battalions of sacred mages) are addicted to the reinvigorating feel of an earth bless and imagine the ruler of the universe should only need one eye.

[JimMorrison]

Well maybe this is a good subject for another attempted list. Thematic pretenders that have more up front niche use - and some thematic special abilities for different pretender chassis that would provide different strategic possibilities. Are those moddable? Like the Gorgon's petrification (not saying more pretenders need that, just an example), can that be added to a custom modded pretender chassis?

It seems to me that more nation specific pretenders should be based around minor paths available to that nation, rather than based around their major path. Not that it's wrong to do Water magic pretenders for aquatic races, or Nature magic pretenders for Pangaea et al, but in some cases a people who are strong in one thing, and weak in another, could come across an ancient (or not so ancient) being who was vastly powerful in that weaker path, and become fascinated by it, because it can command powers that they barely comprehend.

Yes, there are usually options for whatever you think works, and you can justify any pretender choice through RP reasoning, but I am talking nation specific things that are out of the ordinary.

Here's my first good example, I won't do numbers, just lay out the basic idea - for Caelum, amidst ALL of their Air based pretender choices - the Glacial Prince, a huge self aware water elemental who was discovered in the high mountains. Heck, this guy could actually be considered Mindless like the Colossal Fetish, and ultimately he serves the Seraphs, but they worship him and believe him to be autonomous.

[Zeldor]

I think it is just usability for sair race. But best example about national pretender usefulness is to compare Agarthan Risen Oracle and Shinu's immortal pretender. See what you get for your points. Orcale is just so great that it is hard to think about a situation when you don't want it. And you wouldn't touch Shinu's immortal SC with a stick.

[Wrana]

Well, actually I did touch it! But probably won't do it again, in MP particularly. Especially after I've seen that they have a hero who is about the same, just weaker!

DonCorazon :
and imagine the ruler of the universe should only need one eye.

Well, THAT problem my divisions of Wind Guided archers can surely fix!

[DonCorazon]

Bah, 2 eyes are overrated. Those who lose one eye usually are about to lose the other (thanks to Cleveland for the lesson in the power of Eye Shields).

Anyway, being blind doesn't stop you from using 100 precision spells.

And as a side bonus it makes you immune to the effects of darkness.

[Wrana]

Thank you for reminding about Eye Shields.. And so maybe you should use blind Pretender from the beginning?

[Natpy]

I like Machaka`s national pretender Colossal Fetish. It can be very strong with additional magic.